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Double Bass Amateur neck repair?

chriscrob

chriscrob

ozellomusic.com
Mar 24, 2008
383
54
40
Atlanta, Georgia
ozellomusic.com
#1
I bought a 1962 American Standard (serial 3003) in need of repair for $99 yesterday.

There is a split right below where the neck meets the body. The neck can move a little without the bass moving. Its pretty clean and its only a centimeter ish across (if that).

I have a woodworking friend (he builds upscale cabinets) who I may ask to try to repair it...gluing the neck back down would require clamps, glue, and the ability to apply glue in a pretty small space and he has all of these things.

Is this a bad idea? Is there a reason to use hide glue vs something else? I haven't asked him his thoughts yet, I just wanted to make sure it wasn't a horrible idea before I let him try.

There is a good repair guy in my town but my wife isn't too keen on spending a lot of money repairing another bass so if I can get an acceptable repair without paying repair shop prices it would be nice. (I may or may not have spent a lot of money on bass things in the past few months)
 
#2
Can you post clear, well-lit photos from a few angles? If you're lucky all it may need is a neck re-set, which involves removing the neck from the block, cleaning up and shimming the neck joint, and re-setting the neck with clamps and hot hide glue. If you're not lucky the neck block is damaged and will have to be replaced, which will be ten times $99.

If you halfass the job, it will have to be done again. Trust me on that. No cabinetmakers, no shade-tree repairmen. Hide glue only, please.

I don't know where Newnan is (Georgia?) but you can find a list of bass-specific luthiers at gollihurmusic.com.

Explain to your wife that the $99 wreck you dragged into the house yesterday could be worth three grand or more if you put a little more money into it, and that if you eventually sell it, there will be something shiny in it for her.
 
#4
I dropped it off at a local shop for an estimate (the luthier wasn't in) After looking at it more, it may just be a reset that needs. It was loose at a joint not broken.

I guess I'll probably get it fixed professionally...since I've never had a DB before I guess it would may make sense to go ahead and get it set up too.
 
#5
My concern is due to the funky neck joint design on King and American Standard basses. There is a trapezoidal tenon at the end of the neck, widest at the bottom, and an equivalent mortise in the neck block. The wood is thin in spots and can easily be broken, like the neck on my King. This is the bad-luck possibility I mentioned earlier.

On mine at least, the mortise and tenon were not cut to be a snug fit either, so after the glue failed, the mechanical strength of the mortise and tenon were pretty much all that kept the neck in the block.

Under string tension it was tight, but with the strings off the neck rocked back and forth. After I glued shims onto the bottom and one side of the tenon the fit was tight and I was able to get a good glue joint when I reset the neck. Hide glue is great at mating flush surfaces but useless at filling space.

Anyway, what all this adds up to is a couple of hundred bucks if all that is wrong is a failed glue joint. Please keep us posted. Those old tubs have a lot of devoted fans.
 
#6
$99!!!!!!! For that price, you can afford to fix it right. In my local area, nice American Standards can fetch $3-4k; remember that when you are getting it worked on. If you don't want to spend the money or lack the proper place to have it worked on, DON'T do a cheap hack job!!!! Sell it to someone who wants to do it correct. There are enough poorly done old basses out there as it is.....

Old American Standards are my favorite plywood bodies and my least favorite neck designs. Make sure the shop you took it to is a BASS luthier, not a guitar shop with a bottle of titebond. Hot hide glue only- not the liquid stuff in the brown plastic bottle.

As a backup plan, if you decide you are not into restoring it properly, you should be able to put it up in the classified ads here and get 10x your investment with no problems in a couple of days. Fix it right and get a great setup and it will change your life!

j.
 
#7
chriscrob said:
..... my wife isn't too keen on spending a lot of money repairing another bass....
Click to expand...

The sooner you stop feeling the need to tell her about every penny you spend on your basses, the sooner your relationship will likely improve. Switch to telling her about the deals you make money from. That said, when it comes to wives, if you want my advice....well...to quote a good friend of mine who has three ex wives, "My advice is you're probably better off asking someone else for advice....!"

j.
 
#8
So I got it repaired by a guy in town. (I was referred to him by another luthier.)

He had some trouble getting it to work. His first few attempts to use hide glue came loose when tension was applied. Eventually he tried screws through the fingerboard but the wood was too soft and the screws pulled out. Then he tried airplane glue which worked ok, but he re-did it and reinforced it with an aluminum bar and airplane glue.

Not sure if somebody else would have had different results but I'm not really happy with the results, aesthetically. It was $250...he worked on it for lots of hours, not sure how much of that was because he didn't do it right the first time though.

I'm still waiting on a new bridge...the action is un-usably high above where the seventh fret would be :) (I'll get the lingo eventually) The current bridge is sort of huge and un-adjustable. Lessons will hopefully start soon though!

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#11
This really pisses me off. It's a textbook example of what happens when someone new to the DB willfully ignores the advice of people who know what they're talking about and lets an unqualified hack botch a straightforward repair. This was a straightforward job any bass luthier could have done for a price easily recouped in a sale. Instead, by not knowing when to stop, he turned it into a situation where his wretched attempt will have to be undone, followed by a a proper repair made more difficult and more expensive. The person (I will not soil the word "luthier") who did this shouldn't be allowed near any musical instrument ever again. Do yourself, and more importantly, the instrument, a favor: sell it immediately to someone who cares enough to have needed work properly done. American Standards are well-liked and desirable instruments-please don't damage this one any further.
 
#14
salcott said:
This really pisses me off. It's a textbook example of what happens when someone new to the DB willfully ignores the advice of people who know what they're talking about and lets an unqualified hack botch a straightforward repair. This was a straightforward job any bass luthier could have done for a price easily recouped in a sale. Instead, by not knowing when to stop, he turned it into a situation where his wretched attempt will have to be undone, followed by a a proper repair made more difficult and more expensive. The person (I will not soil the word "luthier") who did this shouldn't be allowed near any musical instrument ever again. Do yourself, and more importantly, the instrument, a favor: sell it immediately to someone who cares enough to have needed work properly done. American Standards are well-liked and desirable instruments-please don't damage this one any further.
Click to expand...

I actually thought I was following your advice...I took it to a guy in Atlanta for an estimate and he referred me to this guy (in a suburb of Atlanta, an hour drive from the shop he was in) by name. Obviously I was wrong to think that meant something but I took it to this guy in an attempt to follow the "get it done professionally" advice. I guess I didn't listen to james condino but since I was hoping for it to just need to be re-set I assumed it wasn't beyond this guys abilities. I was wrong though.
 
#16
Well..... it is what it is now; I'm not going to give anyone a hard time about it. About 80% of the repair work I see tends to be of this form- someone gets a job like this done improperly in a misguided attempt to fix a problem. The $250 "repair" results in a dropped street value by ten times that amount. I know Atlanta is a couple of hours drive from Asheville or a few other well established bass shops in the area, but the tradeoff in gas money would have been worth the ability to sell it for $3500 when it was fixed and setup properly.

Live with it, play it, and just accept that now you've got a $1200 parts rig if you ever decide to sell it- still a good deal considering what you've got into it. To be honest, now it moved into my favorite category of old American Standards- nice original bodies that will soon get a complete new neck built to my specs with a scroll graft.......

I'd add this to the list of not so great business decisions that your wife doesn't need to hear about.:hmm:

j.
 
#17
I agree with James about not piling on you. The shop you brought it to is another matter. I'd be on the phone to a lawyer if I was you. Look at it this way -- you paid that hack $250 to do $2500 in damage to that bass. If it was ugly but playable that would be one thing, but with the strings an inch off the board and two fat bolts through the board, that ain't remotely playable in my book. What a mess. Good luck with it. :scowl:
 
#19
Talk about a violation of the hippocratic oath. That's one of the worst repairs I've ever seen.

At the very least, you should inform the first luthier to stop giving referrals to this hack. None of his decisions mentioned make any sense to me, but the worst part is it looks like he left the strings so high that the bass is utterly unusable.

You might be able to sell it as-is for what you have in it. There might be some luthiers looking for project basses. For a couple hundred bucks, it might be worth it for somebody.
 
#20
Ugh.. this .. I'm speechless. This thread might serve well as a sticky for all those less informed on the build/construction/repairs/luthiery of a bass who might also be thinking of taking a similarly nice and well sought after bass to a hack repairman to see so they (hopefully) do the right thing and take it to a well qualified, well reputed luthier that knows very well how to treat/rehab a bass.

I have to wonder too if the string height has anything to do with the neck angle.
 

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