Ambient custom IEMs

[pglaser01]

hi all,

I am looking for some experienced users of IEMs with the built in ambient filters/mics. I have been IEM for a couple years now singing, still struggling with isolation issues in my universal fits. Our guitarist just went custom with Westone triple drivers and ambient filter built in. His significant other is an audiologist, and began her own company and is offering a really good deal on Westones. He really likes them so far, and it has me intrigued. Problem is, having 2 kids, wife doesn't like me spending a boat load on my weekend hobby. So I only use money I make from music.

Just wondering if anyone uses these type of IEMs and can attest that they are waaay better than regular custom IEMs. If not, I could save some scratch and work on ambient mics, but sometimes stage space is a limiting factor. Any thoughts on if it's a wise investment is appreciated!!

Apologies if I've failed to use the search function properly, most of what I saw was just adding external mics to hear better.

 

[s0c9]

so... I have 1964 Audio's A8's. The "A" series uses what used to be called ADEL (now re-labeled as APEX) tech. Each ear contains a "diaphragm" that equalizes the pressure in your ears - to reduce hearing damage, ear fatigue, etc. The APEX modules come in varying DB range -10, -15, -20dB..
They "behave" like ambient ports - without the "tunnels" built into most customs - and allow you to hear ambient noise. That's NOT their primary design.. When I compare them to my fully-sealed Qi's (1964 Quads) the difference is obvious.
The next thing is that you can change the APEX modules.. not matter which model you own.
To the best of my knowledge, this is unique and something found only in the really high end customs.
I wouldn't say it's waaay better.. but it is different.

But I would ask what is your objective?
We tried ambient mics, but they were a PITA to set up.. and messed with the mix in our ears. It was tough getting the correct balance.. so we dropped them pretty quickly.

I keep my IEM volume levels as LOW as possible. With the A8's I can usually hear subs thru the PA (I've been ampless since last Oct) and talk to band members between songs. I set up my IEM mix to factor that in..
Yes, it IS a different mix than with my fully isolating Qi's.

 

[pglaser01]

so... I have 1964 Audio's A8's. The "A" series uses what used to be called ADEL (now re-labeled as APEX) tech. Each ear contains a "diaphragm" that equalizes the pressure in your ears - to reduce hearing damage, ear fatigue, etc. The APEX modules come in varying DB range -10, -15, -20dB..
They "behave" like ambient ports - without the "tunnels" built into most customs - and allow you to hear ambient noise. That's NOT their primary design.. When I compare them to my fully-sealed Qi's (1964 Quads) the difference is obvious.
The next thing is that you can change the APEX modules.. not matter which model you own.
To the best of my knowledge, this is unique and something found only in the really high end customs.
I wouldn't say it's waaay better.. but it is different.

But I would ask what is your objective?
We tried ambient mics, but they were a PITA to set up.. and messed with the mix in our ears. It was tough getting the correct balance.. so we dropped them pretty quickly.

I keep my IEM volume levels as LOW as possible. With the A8's I can usually hear subs thru the PA (I've been ampless since last Oct) and talk to band members between songs. I set up my IEM mix to factor that in..
Yes, it IS a different mix than with my fully isolating Qi's.

Thanks for the info.

My main objective is that I just find the sealed IEMs just TOO isolating at times. I agree ambient mics are a PITA, and we usually don't have too much room to accommodate those. My transmitter is stereo capable, and when I can actually use it, it helps immensely but often times we don't have enough sends for everyone and two for me...

I'm just wondering if this is a good investment, as you stated the differences are obvious, that makes me even more intrigued. I always feel I can match pitch better without my IEMs, but volume is way higher and can cause my voice to be more fatigued as my ears fatigue along with it. But I'm hoping I can have the hearing and voice protection of IEMs with a little less isolation to hear an overall better mix as well

 

[musicman7722]

These aren't customs but I am now using the Westone AM Pro 20 buds. At very low volumes you can hear the stage so it makes talking to somebody nearby much easier.

Link Removed

 

[s0c9]

Thanks for the info.

My main objective is that I just find the sealed IEMs just TOO isolating at times. I agree ambient mics are a PITA, and we usually don't have too much room to accommodate those. My transmitter is stereo capable, and when I can actually use it, it helps immensely but often times we don't have enough sends for everyone and two for me...

I'm just wondering if this is a good investment, as you stated the differences are obvious, that makes me even more intrigued. I always feel I can match pitch better without my IEMs, but volume is way higher and can cause my voice to be more fatigued as my ears fatigue along with it. But I'm hoping I can have the hearing and voice protection of IEMs with a little less isolation to hear an overall better mix as well

I have found that the volume level in your IEM's has a lot to do with ear fatigue AND isolation impact. The LOWER the volume, the more you can hear (feel?) the stage ambience. If you krank up the volume, yes, you'll only get what you put into the mix and the rest will not be there.

I have to disagree about matching "pitch better without my IEM's".
We do quite a few 3-part harmonies and some 2-part. Before we went IEM, the "other" guys mix level in the wedges/PA would often throw me off as I could [consciously] hear him.. After IEM's, I learnt to pan him left (the side of the stage he's on) and at a barely audible level. Lead vox is centered and my vox are panned SLIGHTLY right (between 12:30 and 1pm) with my levels slightly below lead so I can hear OUR harmonies and ignore the 3rd part.
The great thing about IEM's is that you can hear everything in your ears - wherever you are on stage (assuming wireless) - and not have to deal with the directional wedge "zone".

PS: With wireless IEM's, there's also a lot less cr*p to carry to your gig !

 

[Wadge]

From what you described, I highly doubt that the isolation is contributing to your issues. If you miss the roar of the crowd or the loud singing along from the audience, then yes the isolation is a problem. If these are not your issues then what you are probably missing is a good in ear mix.

I understand that because of the limit of sends you have a mono mix is probably all that is available to you, but if you are going to invest in anything at all I would suggest you invest in a mixer with more aux sends to enable stereo mixes. Being able to spread out the instruments in stereo makes your own mix feel less muddled up.

 

[musicman7722]

I have found that the volume level in your IEM's has a lot to do with ear fatigue AND isolation impact. The LOWER the volume, the more you can hear (feel?) the stage ambience. If you krank up the volume, yes, you'll only get what you put into the mix and the rest will not be there.

I have to disagree about matching "pitch better without my IEM's".
We do quite a few 3-part harmonies and some 2-part. Before we went IEM, the "other" guys mix level in the wedges/PA would often throw me off as I could [consciously] hear him.. After IEM's, I learnt to pan him left (the side of the stage he's on) and at a barely audible level. Lead vox is centered and my vox are panned SLIGHTLY right (between 12:30 and 1pm) with my levels slightly below lead so I can hear OUR harmonies and ignore the 3rd part.
The great thing about IEM's is that you can hear everything in your ears - wherever you are on stage (assuming wireless) - and not have to deal with the directional wedge "zone".

PS: With wireless IEM's, there's also a lot less cr*p to carry to your gig !

I would agree with you as well. Go ahead and record yourselves some night singing off the wedges. You might be surprised at how off the signing can be but it just isn't realized at that time.