• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Ambient/Post-Rock/Textural bass playing thread

My usual goal is to have some kind of stereo field but not necessarily stereo motion or intentionally off-center panning. I'll I often "stereoize" mono sources with FX, or use mid-side.... for instance, LPG center and VCA side, or two different oscillators mid and side. Or feedback patches where mid and side come from different places in the feedback loop.

But often that causes phase correlation issues, so I have to watch for that and correct (often by highpassing the side or lowering its level, though I also like the SideMinderZL plugin to automatically make some corrections).
 
For my electronic stuff, I generally record stereo sources in stereo and mono sources dead center. My stereo sources generally decide for me: Super 6, H9, etc. When the Perfourmer arrives I might do some mild voice panning to create movement. I record to a 1010 Bluebox so I could do more panning effects. I do some light mixing and check for mono compatibility but am not too precious about it.

If I’m mixing band stuff then I do pretty conventional panning on the drums, etc. I could also imagine it for more high concept “composed” electronic stuff. Which I’d like to do someday.

Speaking of which, this came out yesterday and I really like it:

 
Question: when you folks do "live" recordings (not necessarily in front of an audience but performed/recorded in real time), do you have things spread out in the stereo field? I've been enjoying doing stuff with DFAM, Subharmonicon, Sirin, & bass but at this point either I record them as discrete tracks and mix in ProTools (which I do enjoy) or "live" with my iPhone video. I'm looking at a mixer that takes four mono signals and puts out two, with separate pan controls for each track. I could spread things out in the stereo field, put the stereo out to a reverb, then stereo from that to my iPhone (I think - gotta check the Roland interface I'm using, make sure it's really stereo - if not then this whole idea is moot)

Am I being precious? Should I just acknowledge that mono is fine?

I often use a mono in / stereo out chorus pedal or a stereo delay pedal to put mono signals into the stereo field. One of my favorites is to use ping pong delay. Also, my mixer allows me to move mono signals to left and right, so I will put a little space between various tracks, without overdoing it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hieronymous
I’m still trying to comprehend stereo vs mid/side. I’ve read that Ableton really does mid/side and not true stereo. But I’m a cave man and couldn’t identify this difference.
Mid-side can mean different things to different people. On the one hand it's a specific microphone configuration that requires a "mid" microphone (often, but not necessarily always, a cardioid pattern mic) set up coincident with a figure eight microphone (ideally, a ribbon). Through mid-side processing (which can be done manually by making the mid mono, then copying the figure eight track and inverting the polarity of the copy, then hard panning each of the figure eight tracks left and right) one can then in post adjust the stereo spread of the sound by adjusting the ratio of the mono mid to the hard panned stereo sides. Technically, adjusting the stereo spread changes the frequency response of the resulting virtual mic array.

Mid-side processing can also be applied to coincident stereo arrays like XY. So even though the mics weren't set up in a mid-side configuration, one can still (in a way) apply mid-side processing. This is another meaning of mid-side to some. (I haven't done this myself with XY recordings but I know some people who do.) Likewise, let's say when you record using a mid-side configuration you use your recorder's built-in mid-side processing to record your raw track with the mid-side ratio already set (something I never do, but some people must since it's a fairly common option). You're not necessarily married to that resulting stereo track because you can still apply mid-side processing to it like you would a recording from an XY array.

Of course any stereo cues that come from a coincident microphone configuration are based on volume differences, whereas spaced mic configurations get stereo cues from time and volume differences. Copying a mono track and applying some very small amount of delay to the copy, then hard panning each left and right, is one way of trying to make a mono source sound like stereo. A very simple and not always great way, but sometimes it works.

Indulge me in a brief rant... True mid-side and XY (and Blumlein...) microphone configurations require the mic capsules to be coincident, which typically means right on top of each other for practical purposes. Despite what this guy says in the video at 5:07, that configuration is not XY and will result in some degree of comb filtering!



Edit: To get back to the original question, mid-side and stereo aren't really different because it's kind of apples and oranges. Mid-side is a microphone configuration, or a way of processing an existing stereo track, to be able to adjust the stereo spread (mixing the ratio of the mono center to the sides) in post.
 
Last edited:
To add to @lucas303 ’s helpful summary, if you run left- right stereo through a mid-side encoder, it will mess with the stereo image. In engineering world this is usually a BAD thing, but in music world, it can be used creatively.

Also, some stereo processors aren’t really stereo; they sum to mono on the input and then output a stereo effect. Again, whether that is a problem depends on your musical goals.
 
Thanks everyone for great input on stereo. I think I'm going to try and snag the mixer I'm looking at - they are going to be released soon, no preorder so gotta wait and pounce!

BTW I'm not sure I ever heard of mid/side until @monsterthompson brought it up! I'm most comfortable with mono sound sources being presented in a stereo field, with maybe a stereo mic on the drum kit if it's live.
 
I've been curious about these. Polarbear Effects


That sounded cool to me.

My Oxi One sequencer showed up a couple days early. So far I can’t make heads or tails of the dang thing. Preordered a long time ago before I went down the M8 rabbithole. The M8 rules. I’ll give the Oxi a few days, but less than thrilled initially
 
  • Like
Reactions: ugly_bassplayer
Man. I keep saying I don’t need more distortion but I sure keep buying it like I do. I got in on the Magic/Dunwich Witchfinder. It should be close to my BSRI FZZ with a few added features, plus cool art. Admittedly, this was a “collector” purchase.

The new WMD Javelin VCA w/ ADSR I picked up is pretty good. I’m not sure I enjoy it as much as the Noise Engineering Sinc Bucina despite the extra features it has. It is a handy tool for pairing with the Qu Bit Bloom since the Bloom sends pretty short gates by default, which can make long attack envelopes difficult. The Javelin has a mode that allows the full A cycle (and DSR cycles) to complete regardless or gate/trigger length. Live and learn. That’s half the Modular fun.
 
Yeah, okay, so I have no self-control...

Habit box.jpg