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Double Bass Ambrosise Thomas' Gavotte

goodgig

goodgig

Inactive
Jul 8, 2006
148
9
Macclenny, Florida
#1
I'm working through Vance's Progressive Repertoire, Volume 3. In the Thomas Gavotte, Measure 8 presents a challenge with this 32nd note figure at the octave on the G string, which goes: F#-G-F#-G-F#. It is to be played with the 2nd and third finger. I can't play this anywhere near tempo, and the sound of my G is weak. Not much strength/control in the 3rd finger. I'm use to playing that G as a harmonic. Any suggestions?
 
#3
Personally I'd question the logic of using 2 and 3 or 2 and 4 to do any sort of quick movement like that. Because the same ligament controls your ring and pinky fingers, they are a bit more sluggish than your index and middle fingers. I'd play around with the fingering to get myself into a position where a movement between 1 and 2 makes more sense.

if you do have to use 2-3 though, I'd look at your whole left arm to make sure you are allowing the weight of your whole arm to translate into your fingers. Also, although it says to use 2 and 3, you could ostensibly use 4 supported with 3. Some "schools" say to use 3 on the g, some say to continue using 4, some don't care.

hope some of this helps, and don't forget to ask a professional, such as your teacher!

eerbrev
 
#4
goodgig said:
I can't play this anywhere near tempo, and the sound of my G is weak. Not much strength/control in the 3rd finger. I'm use to playing that G as a harmonic. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...

Going back and forth between two notes is, of course, a trill, the most basic movement a string player makes: the finger goes down, the finger comes up. So, practice that with a metronome. Slow and correct at first, add rhythms. Your third finger is weak, this is how you strengthen it and nothing about that has changed for hundred of years. :) There are no shortcuts.

Forget the harmonic even exists for a while. You wouldn't normally play a trill between a stopped pitch and a harmonic. At least I wouldn't. Good luck.
 
#5
if you are going to "trill" between 2 and 3 (or 2 and 4), one way to approach it is to keep the 3rd finger near the string and use the same motion you use for vibrato so that your hand is pivoting over your 2nd finger, rather than staying static while your 3rd finger does all the work. it is way more efficient to share the motion with your hand since your 3rd finger is naturally weak.
 
#6
SB and eerbv, I tried your suggestions which made the passage easier to handle. I've discovered a bad habit! I had been keeping my thumb behind the neck, which made the third finger, as you said, do all the work. Using 1st and 2nd fingers (instead of 2 and 3) and pivoting my hand, require my thumb to get away from anchoring on the neck. I found that playing in thumb position works well. I had been using Spiro mittels. I just put on the Corelli mediums and that too makes the trill easier to play. Neil, would you recommend a book that offers trill exercises? This is clearly an area where I need work. Thank you for your help.
 
#7
goodgig said:
SB and eerbv, I tried your suggestions which made the passage easier to handle. I've discovered a bad habit! I had been keeping my thumb behind the neck, which made the third finger, as you said, do all the work. Using 1st and 2nd fingers (instead of 2 and 3) and pivoting my hand, require my thumb to get away from anchoring on the neck. I found that playing in thumb position works well. I had been using Spiro mittels. I just put on the Corelli mediums and that too makes the trill easier to play. Neil, would you recommend a book that offers trill exercises? This is clearly an area where I need work. Thank you for your help.
Click to expand...

excellent point and i'm glad you were able to figure this out. in that register of the instrument, it would really be impossible for most people to trill without moving into (or at least toward) thumb position. as you progress, you will probably find yourself using thumb position on lower passages even still. i use thumb position in almost every register of the instrument (occasionally anyways). for example, there is a trill in the bach i've been working on lately that is all the way down to g# - a on the d string, and based on what comes before/after it i have found that the best approach for me is to stay in thumb position!
 
#8
goodgig said:
Neil, would you recommend a book that offers trill exercises? This is clearly an area where I need work. Thank you for your help.
Click to expand...

You don't need a book, really. Trills are simple and there are only the obvious combinations, but I have a one-page exercise I give to students and that I use myself. Give me your email and I'll send it to you.

A really simple thing is to put trills into scales. For instance, playing c-d-c-d / d-e-d-e / e-f-e-f / f-g-f-g etc. Or, c-d-c-d / e-f-e-f / g-a-g-a etc. You get the idea. A zillion ways to do it.
 
#9
neilG said:
You don't need a book, really. Trills are simple and there are only the obvious combinations, but I have a one-page exercise I give to students and that I use myself. Give me your email and I'll send it to you.

A really simple thing is to put trills into scales. For instance, playing c-d-c-d / d-e-d-e / e-f-e-f / f-g-f-g etc. Or, c-d-c-d / e-f-e-f / g-a-g-a etc. You get the idea. A zillion ways to do it.
Click to expand...

this is a great idea. i will practice this tomorrow.
 
#12
I have an additional question on trills:

when playing a fast trill say from 2 to 1 (or whatever combination of fingers), do you pull the string with the 2nd finger (like you would when playing a pizzicato trill)?
So picking the string the 2nd finger.

Or do you only lift it up, like a flute player would do?
 

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