American Precision, spoke wheel truss adjuster issue.

[Rockin John]

Hello folks.

I hope this is the correct place for such a question … and I’ve checked previous posts for an answer but without success (unless I’m getting more forgetful than I thought!!).

My bass is an American Elite Precision, 2017, with the P&J pickups + active electronics. I bought it at the end of ‘17 as a shop demo bass.

The truss adjusting spoke wheel is jammed tight when adjusting with ‘normal’ hand force: in fact it will not move at all. I tried adjusting soon after buying the bass but gave up because I feared breaking something. I wondered if it’d been cross-threaded by someone before me, or if glue was in the threads causing the issue. At that point, for lots and lots of different and unfortunate reasons, it lived in its case until yesterday.

Re-looking at the bass I researched all I could for answers, clues, help and the like. However …

1) I cannot find out if my bass has a simple tighten / loosen truss rod, or whether is of the push / pull type. This seems to have a direct bearing on how the rod and adjusting wheel work together. Some photos on the web show spoke wheels welded to the rod, whilst others show them just as a screw-on type fitting.

2) From the above it seems to depend on how much pressure I apply to try to shift the wheel. Using the maxim, lefty-loosy, righty-tighty, I could attempt to turn it left. At some point I have to risk turning the wheel … or take it to a tech; if so who!

Thoughts, wisdom, etc, gratefully received.

Tks.

John. England.

 

[BGroovy]

I had the same era and those wheels were just not well designed from the size of the openings to get a tool in to adjust. If I needed to make a larger adjustment I actually took the neck off so I could just use an allen wrench in the center of the truss.

make sure you get a tool in pretty deep before turning that wheel, it takes more force than you expect. People have stripped them and needed to thread on a new wheel.

It's just a thread on wheel, it can be removed.

 

[96tbird]

I would take the neck off and see if it loosens, lubricate with penetrating oil as needed. If it does, I would remove the nut completely and try some shim washers down the hole.

 

[vaesto]

It is not clear if the nut needs lubrication or it has reached the adjustment end.

My action plan would be:
1. Loosen or remove strings first. Then bnd the neck back and forth by hand, flex it. And after all try to loosen the TR (counter-clock, looking from the body end to the head). If it is stiff as hell - then it might need lubrication. If it doesn't go at reasonable force - then it might be stuck.
2. If it turns, but you need to tighten it even more - the TR run out of adjustment range. Maybe a washer or two would help, but it depends on the season behind such situation.
2. Remove the neck completely and follow @96tbird advice from previous post.
3. Evaluate if the neck is straight with no string and TR completely loose. TR only works on straight necks. Otherwise, this needs to be fixed (thermal method is the best point to start).

Do not force the nut! If it doesn't go - better to give a bass to pro hands.

 

[Rockin John]

Ok, guys and thanks.

I’ve done a little more work on this and have discovered…

1) Fender say it’s a dual acting truss rod. I therefore assume the slot wheel must be connected (welded?) to the truss rod in order to force the neck one way or the other if needed?

2) The action is rather too low with the strings at pitch. That is, @ 7th fret the string is too close to the fret. The spec is 12 to 14 thou @ 7th: mine is 9 or 10 thou - not a monster error but not correct. (Fender say to capo at 1st fret and press down on the last one. I checked it in the playing position).

I removed the neck a good while ago but the slot wheel was / seemed so tight that I went no further and put the bass back together. I’ve ordered a piece of silver steel rod, 3.5mm to make two tools for another attempt when the neck is off again, one tool in an above slot and one in a below slot to equalise the forces as I try to twist the wheel (ccw).

The other thing is that a heavier gauge string set might work if I dare not move the slot wheel.

John

 

[Coerced]

Ok, guys and thanks.

I’ve done a little more work on this and have discovered…

1) Fender say it’s a dual acting truss rod. I therefore assume the slot wheel must be connected (welded?) to the truss rod in order to force the neck one way or the other if needed?

2) The action is rather too low with the strings at pitch. That is, @ 7th fret the string is too close to the fret. The spec is 12 to 14 thou @ 7th: mine is 9 or 10 thou - not a monster error but not correct. (Fender say to capo at 1st fret and press down on the last one. I checked it in the playing position).

I removed the neck a good while ago but the slot wheel was / seemed so tight that I went no further and put the bass back together. I’ve ordered a piece of silver steel rod, 3.5mm to make two tools for another attempt when the neck is off again, one tool in an above slot and one in a below slot to equalise the forces as I try to twist the wheel (ccw).

The other thing is that a heavier gauge string set might work if I dare not move the slot wheel.

John

I aim for 10 thousandths at the eighth fret capo at first and depressing fret just past ( towards bridge) where neck meets body. 14 thousandths is way too much for me. Does it buzz?

 

[Rockin John]

Coerced. Well, all I can do at this point is to follow what Fender says because I don’t know any different. Yes it does buzz but mainly on the E string. A main part of this journey for me is learning about bass set-up so I must follow the Fender book … at least to begin with.

 

[Coerced]

Coerced. Well, all I can do at this point is to follow what Fender says because I don’t know any different. Yes it does buzz but mainly on the E string. A main part of this journey for me is learning about bass set-up so I must follow the Fender book … at least to begin with.

That's completely understandable. If you can't get the truss rod adjusted, I think moving to heavier strings, like you mentioned earlier, is a good nondestructive option. I think the lighter gauge Fender flats (9050l) pair up well with PJs and aren't bridge cables. They allow for a lower action without buzzing compared to a lot of rounds and would probably pull more relief into the neck. Cheap for flats, too. Of course, I'm assuming you're using rounds now. I know what assuming sometimes does...

 

[Rockin John]

That's completely understandable. If you can't get the truss rod adjusted, I think moving to heavier strings, like you mentioned earlier, is a good nondestructive option. I think the lighter gauge Fender flats (9050l) pair up well with PJs and aren't bridge cables. They allow for a lower action without buzzing compared to a lot of rounds and would probably pull more relief into the neck. Cheap for flats, too. Of course, I'm assuming you're using rounds now. I know what assuming sometimes does...

Thanks. When time permits I’ll get the neck off again and try to move the wheel with my home made tools. I’ll either have to make a jig to hold the neck, or get someone to hold it whilst I try to move the wheel.

 

[One Way]

@Coerced what string height measurement are you using at the 12th fret? Or 17th fret?
You mention string buzz which can result from the string being too close to the frets. This adjustment is made by raising or lowering the bridge saddles.

I only bring this up because you mentioned you are new at bass setup. On a bass string height is not set buy adjusting the truss rod bt by adjusting the bridge string saddles. Please forgive me if you’re already aware of this.

I bring this up because each of my basses are set to .010” neck relief and they play very well. I set the string height at the 17th fret on my P basses at .005” on the G string to .006” on the E or B string and experience no string buzz. I can actually reduce the string height by 001” from those settings if the instruments don’t leave the climate controlled environment. The slight extra string height keeps things buzz free when playing various indoor and outdoor events.

 

[RSBBass]

If you have too little relief, you want to loosen the truss rod.

 

[Coerced]

@Coerced what string height measurement are you using at the 12th fret? Or 17th fret?
You mention string buzz which can result from the string being too close to the frets. This adjustment is made by raising or lowering the bridge saddles.

I only bring this up because you mentioned you are new at bass setup. On a bass string height is not set buy adjusting the truss rod bt by adjusting the bridge string saddles. Please forgive me if you’re already aware of this.

I bring this up because each of my basses are set to .010” neck relief and they play very well. I set the string height at the 17th fret on my P basses at .005” on the G string to .006” on the E or B string and experience no string buzz. I can actually reduce the string height by 001” from those settings if the instruments don’t leave the climate controlled environment. The slight extra string height keeps things buzz free when playing various indoor and outdoor events.

I think you meant to reply to the OP. I know to adjust action at the saddles. 1.9mm to 1.6mm E-G at 12th fret, no capo.

 

[Rockin John]

That's completely understandable. If you can't get the truss rod adjusted, I think moving to heavier strings, like you mentioned earlier, is a good nondestructive option. I think the lighter gauge Fender flats (9050l) pair up well with PJs and aren't bridge cables. They allow for a lower action without buzzing compared to a lot of rounds and would probably pull more relief into the neck. Cheap for flats, too. Of course, I'm assuming you're using rounds now. I know what assuming sometimes does...

Thanks. When time permits I’ll get the neck off again and try to move the wheel with my home made tools. I’ll either have to make a jig to hold the neck, or get someone to hold it whilst I try to move the wheel.

If you have too little relief, you want to loosen the truss rod.

Yes, RSBBass. I know that. The point of this thread is to find out **how** to do it with a slot wheel adjuster that is **extremely tight** because a previous person has made it like that!!

Do you have any wisdom on that point?

 

[Coerced]

Thanks. When time permits I’ll get the neck off again and try to move the wheel with my home made tools. I’ll either have to make a jig to hold the neck, or get someone to hold it whilst I try to move the wheel.

I wish you luck. Remember to slightly flex the neck the direction you want it to go when you adjust the truss rod. Always a good idea to avoid crushing wood unnecessarily. And it could make the last bit of difference whether you're successful or not.

 

[davedamage]

Hold up... ya'll are saying you can FEEL a difference of .004"? That's just barely over a human hair. And not two.

 

[Rockin John]

I wish you luck. Remember to slightly flex the neck the direction you want it to go when you adjust the truss rod. Always a good idea to avoid crushing wood unnecessarily. And it could make the last bit of difference whether you're successful or not.

Thanks for reminding me. I’ve spent some time today making a pair of tools and now just await the pieces of silver steel to finish that job. Tomorrow - silver steel permitting - I’ll get the neck off.

As an interesting side issue, and after a little more digging + drawing a couple of conclusions, I’m 99% convinced the truss was adjusted by the dealer from whom I bought the bass. How much care was taken during the adjustment I’ll never know.

I’ll report back when there’s progress - one way or another!

 

[Turnaround]

Hold up... ya'll are saying you can FEEL a difference of .004"? That's just barely over a human hair. And not two.

I certainly can feel the difference of .002" in relief while playing my bass.

 

[Rockin John]

I had the same era and those wheels were just not well designed from the size of the openings to get a tool in to adjust. If I needed to make a larger adjustment I actually took the neck off so I could just use an allen wrench in the center of the truss.

make sure you get a tool in pretty deep before turning that wheel, it takes more force than you expect. People have stripped them and needed to thread on a new wheel.

It's just a thread on wheel, it can be removed.

OK, and thanks. I’ve been to the trouble of making a pair of strong adjusting tools. They’ll be used when I remove the neck for the very purpose of adjusting the wheel.

Each is a 3” length of steel tube of about 1/4” inside diameter. Into that I drove and epoxy-glued about 2” of wood. Down the centre of the wood I drilled a 1/8” (3mm, actually) hole. Then I epoxy-glued a 3mm twist drill into the hole, and which then protrudes by about1/2”. That distance is enough to go into the holes on the wheel, but will not foul the fretboard for small amounts of turn whilst still retaining strength in the tool.

These are strong tools which should make it as easy as possible to sort the stuck slot wheel.

It’s good to know that the wheel comes off so that (hopefully) I can clean then lubricate the threads.

Thanks…

 

[davedamage]

I certainly can feel the difference of .002" in relief while playing my bass.

Not being a smartass, but how are you measuring it? And if you are .002" off, do you back it off and try it again or can you actually accurately turn the truss rod to adjust it exactly that much?

I only ask because I'm a toolmaker. I can feel a couple thou step in steel, but not in physical distance as such.

Edit: I've played bass much longer than I've been building tools (and I should be a much better player than I am after 30 years...) but I would never be able to tell that subtle of a distance.

 

[Rockin John]

I would take the neck off and see if it loosens, lubricate with penetrating oil as needed. If it does, I would remove the nut completely and try some shim washers down the hole.

Hello, and thanks. Yes, this is the plan. Probably do it at the weekend.