Amp/cab suggestions welcome

[utkanos]

Hey TB!

I've been using a modeler as a bass amp for a quite a while since I mostly play drums these days and modeling makes it super easy to record bass guitar. I miss having something that can move air and produce bass that I can feel though. I sold all the stuff I used to gig with years ago, but there are SO MANY options to choose from these days that simply didn't exist in an accesible form back when I was gigging more, and I am feeling a bit lost. I've read a bunch of threads here and other places, but would appreciate some help choosing an amp/cab.

* I need something that can keep up with a big acoustic drum kit in a studio space, but I am not playing live shows these days so I don't need anything crazy powerful at all. More often than not, it wouldn't need to get that loud for just practice/jamming solo, but it doesn't need to be bedroom volume or anything.
* I don't really plan to move the gear around, so weight isn't really an issue (and all the modern stuff looks SO light compared to the what I remember anyway)
* I am not opposed to a combo, but I think the sound I am really chasing requires a separate cabinet, happy to be corrected on this assumption. My last combo and my 5 string did not get along very well.
* Way back in the day, the Trace Elliot preshape sound was really appealing to me, I never owned one but a bandmate in the 90s had a TE and I loved it.

The thing I want most of all is string clarity and bright response. I don't play anything nearly as heavy as Mudvayne, but Ryan Martinie's sound on LD50 (Severed, Know Forever, Death Blooms, etc) is something I've always really wanted to cop and a good reference point for that stringy sound I'm after. I like hearing the clarity of mids/highs and the harmonics and snap/pop type response, which has been historically very difficult to capture for me. I think based on what I've found online a 4x10 or 2x10 with a horn/tweeter should be able to get me there. I like a growly low end mixed with the razor clarity on the top end. I have a StingRay and a Streamer, so I know the basses themselves will do what I am after at least. I think honestly my choice in cabinets historically has always prevented me from getting closer to that level of string clarity I am after.

So, all of that said, if folks have suggestions that fit the bill I'd love to hear more about it. The Genzler stuff I've been listening to and reading about looks appealing, but I don't really have a way to try any of that out unfortunately. Things I am seeing these days like these smaller heads from Aguilar, Warwick, Darkglass, Genzler etc really didn't exist last time I was looking at this kind of gear

Budget wise, I am willing to invest in the right gear if it gets me the sound I am after.

Thank you!!!

 

[WRM]

It looks like he favors Ampeg and Warwick Amps & Cabs (and Warwick Thumb Basses):
Invalid Link Removed

 

[utkanos]

It looks like he favors Ampeg and Warwick Amps & Cabs (and Warwick Thumb Basses):
Invalid Link Removed

Thanks! Yeah I have a Warwick which gets me close with my modeler, but FRFR doesn't sound the same as a bass cab does and it's lacking that punch/oomph/highs I am after.

I also don't really want to copy that setup explicitly or anything, it was just a handy reference for the kind of tone I am hoping for. I appreciate the info! I feel like I can get that kind of bass-forward stringy sound without that massive setup he's rocking... or I hope so anyway

 

[WRM]

Maybe @JimmyM has some thoughts for your consideration. There's really no substitute for trying as many amps and cabs as possible. I like the MESA Subway series, but I wasn't trying to copy a specific tone, just finding the Bass tone in my head.

 

[Wasnex]

First thing you need to do is set a budget. Consider the max you are willing to spend. Since weight is not a concern, older previously loved gear could be the right choice. However, keep in mind older gear won't have a warranty and some it is is not longer repairable, so if it breaks you throw it away.

The second thing is to try and identify the qualities you want. If there is no rush, take your time and play as much gear as you can get your hands on, until you find the right combination. The type of tonal options you want are likely to evolve as you try different rigs, gain experience, and learn more about the possibilities.

IMHO choosing the right amp and cab is a very personal thing. Some are very transparent and some have very strong baked in voicings. Even rigs that are transparent and high fidelity have different personalities because the center frequencies and bandwidths of the tone controls vary from one model to the next. The way gear speaks can vary. Consider the transient response of the attack, how focused the tone is, and if notes bloom or punch. Also consider how the gear handles overload. When a signal is pushed from clean to overload it transition to compression to over drive to distortion. The transition from clean to distortion may be sudden or there may be a wide window and a gentle transition. Consider if the transition is even across the frequency spectrum or if different frequency ranges transition at a different time. Also consider the timbre and quality of distortion. Is it bright or dark? Is it harsh, buzzy, splatty, or smooth How far can the signal be pushed into distortion before the lows wash out and fall apart?

 

[Nebadon2000]

Genzler and Mesa should do what you want
I use Mesa WD800 and Subway 1x15
IME it can easily achive your goals

 

[Nebadon2000]

Genzler and Mesa should do what you want
I use Mesa WD800 and Subway 1x15
IME it can easily achive your goals

PS I had 90's Trace Amp and 410 (in the 90's)if you can find in good condition should be fairly cheap and if it breaks after awhile no big loss but may work out never know

 

[utkanos]

First thing you need to do is set a budget. Consider the max you are willing to spend. Since weight is not a concern, older previously loved gear could be the right choice. However, keep in mind older gear won't have a warranty and some it is is not longer repairable, so if it breaks you throw it away.

The second thing is to try and identify the qualities you want. If there is no rush, take your time and play as much gear as you can get your hands on, until you find the right combination. The type of tonal options you want are likely to evolve as you try different rigs, gain experience, and learn more about the possibilities.

IMHO choosing the right amp and cab is a very personal thing. Some are very transparent and some have very strong baked in voicings. Even rigs that are transparent and high fidelity have different personalities because the center frequencies and bandwidths of the tone controls vary from one model to the next. The way gear speaks can vary. Consider the transient response of the attack, how focused the tone is, and if notes bloom or punch. Also consider how the gear handles overload. When a signal is pushed from clean to overload it transition to compression to over drive to distortion. The transition from clean to distortion may be sudden or there may be a wide window and a gentle transition. Consider if the transition is even across the frequency spectrum or if different frequency ranges transition at a different time. Also consider the timbre and quality of distortion. Is it bright or dark? Is it harsh, buzzy, splatty, or smooth How far can the signal be pushed into distortion before the lows wash out and fall apart?

Thank you, this all makes sense and it's how I would evaluate a guitar amp, I don't really have much opportunity to try all the things I'd like to in person unfortunately. Budget wise, I mentioned I'm willing to invest in something that can get me closer to the tones mentioned but lets say around 2,000 USD seems like a good max for this.

At best, I'm able to have stuff sent to a local Guitar Center to try out, so I was hoping to get a few recs of things that would get me in the ballpark to audition my bass against. Locally, all I can play *today* is an Aguilar Tonehammer from the looks of it.

 

[JimmyM]

Maybe @JimmyM has some thoughts for your consideration. There's really no substitute for trying as many amps and cabs as possible. I like the MESA Subway series, but I wasn't trying to copy a specific tone, just finding the Bass tone in my head.

Not familiar with the Warwick amps, but a great smaller sub for the 810e is an SVT 410he or 610hlf made by LOUD or Yamaha with the tweeter off. The 410he uses the same speakers as the 810e, while the 610hlf sounds very similar but older ones came across more muddy.

Also, I’ve only tried a Subway 210 with a D800 (according to my failing steel trap memory), but I thought it was pretty great for a non Ampeg

 

[cratz2]

I'd be thinking a MESA head and cab and a good Ampeg-ish pedal to get that more driven tone.

To save a few $$$, maybe a heavier cab but $2500 should get you some great tones, esp if you dint need quite gig volumes right now.

I'd be considering a D800+, a Subway 1x15 (or a 2x10 if you must but in the MESA lineup, I prefer the 1x15) and maybe the Ampeg SGT-DI or one of the boutique pedals. I'd skip the Classic and the SCR-DI.

 

[MrLenny1]

I'm using a Mark Bass 1x12 combo. Super portable
and loud.

 

[GreyBeard]

Fender Rumble 500C/800C or Ampeg RB210 should do the job

 

[gtirard]

Hey TB!

I've been using a modeler as a bass amp for a quite a while since I mostly play drums these days and modeling makes it super easy to record bass guitar. I miss having something that can move air and produce bass that I can feel though. I sold all the stuff I used to gig with years ago, but there are SO MANY options to choose from these days that simply didn't exist in an accesible form back when I was gigging more, and I am feeling a bit lost. I've read a bunch of threads here and other places, but would appreciate some help choosing an amp/cab.

* I need something that can keep up with a big acoustic drum kit in a studio space, but I am not playing live shows these days so I don't need anything crazy powerful at all. More often than not, it wouldn't need to get that loud for just practice/jamming solo, but it doesn't need to be bedroom volume or anything.
* I don't really plan to move the gear around, so weight isn't really an issue (and all the modern stuff looks SO light compared to the what I remember anyway)
* I am not opposed to a combo, but I think the sound I am really chasing requires a separate cabinet, happy to be corrected on this assumption. My last combo and my 5 string did not get along very well.
* Way back in the day, the Trace Elliot preshape sound was really appealing to me, I never owned one but a bandmate in the 90s had a TE and I loved it.

The thing I want most of all is string clarity and bright response. I don't play anything nearly as heavy as Mudvayne, but Ryan Martinie's sound on LD50 (Severed, Know Forever, Death Blooms, etc) is something I've always really wanted to cop and a good reference point for that stringy sound I'm after. I like hearing the clarity of mids/highs and the harmonics and snap/pop type response, which has been historically very difficult to capture for me. I think based on what I've found online a 4x10 or 2x10 with a horn/tweeter should be able to get me there. I like a growly low end mixed with the razor clarity on the top end. I have a StingRay and a Streamer, so I know the basses themselves will do what I am after at least. I think honestly my choice in cabinets historically has always prevented me from getting closer to that level of string clarity I am after.

So, all of that said, if folks have suggestions that fit the bill I'd love to hear more about it. The Genzler stuff I've been listening to and reading about looks appealing, but I don't really have a way to try any of that out unfortunately. Things I am seeing these days like these smaller heads from Aguilar, Warwick, Darkglass, Genzler etc really didn't exist last time I was looking at this kind of gear

Budget wise, I am willing to invest in the right gear if it gets me the sound I am after.

Thank you!!!

Lucky you! At a time when everybody is looking for a ligthweight rig, selling their great but heavy amps and cabs for cheap, in order to buy the latest super lightweight gear — you on the opposite don't need to move your gear around.

So you should be able to buy used a great sounding but super heavy amp, and spend less or get more with the same budget.

The only problem being reliability and ease of maintenance (parts are no longer available for some old amps). I think this problem is more important for heads than for cabs, so if I was in your situation, maybe I would get a modern amp for peace of mind, and a used heavy but great sounding cab. I remember an old 2x15 in a rehearsal studio that sounded amazing, it was all beaten up and incredibly heavy, there wasn't even any logo on it… I would buy it any day if I had my own basement for rehearsal.

 

[Pocket Dave]

At best, I'm able to have stuff sent to a local Guitar Center to try out, so I was hoping to get a few recs of things that would get me in the ballpark to audition my bass against. Locally, all I can play *today* is an Aguilar Tonehammer from the looks of it.

I can tell you what NOT to get.

Listening to Ryan Martinie's tone, I don't think you're going to get what you want from an Aggie Tone Hammer - And I LOVE my TH-500.

Nor would I expect an Ampeg RB series to work. Both these amps are more directed toward vintage tones, though the Aggie can do a tighter growl - It just may not have quite the high end you want,

I would steer completely clear of the current Fender Rumble combos. They're capable amps with plenty of bottom end, just nothing like what I'm hearing from Ryan Martinie.

Otherwise I'm following this thread because I LIKE his tone.

 

[waveman]

My solution to this for our rehearsal area is an Acoustic B100C 1x12 100W combo. It is a very neutral amp. and works well with modelers and preamps. It gets loud enough - I have never had to turn it much past 4 or about 10:00 on the dial for loudness. And it has volume controlled XLR out if you want that. And it has tilt-back to point it up toward you to hear.

Having said that, there are lots of ways to go with this.

 

[TTA]

agree with others that now is a great time to buy older, heavier cabs on the used market. casters and a friend can solve a lot of problems.
My warning to beginners, is once you have your budget, the next step is to determine your volume needs. Buy and amp, and SEPERATE cab(s) that can meet your current and future needs with headroom to spare. a 8 ohm 4x10 combos great with a 8 ohm 1x15 later, or even another 4x10. If a 4x10 is more than you need, a 2x10 +1x15 in seperate cabs is great. keep your cabs separate as they will be easier to move/pack than a 8x10 fridge. i am not a combo fan.

Get an amp with the power you need and a good di out. i also like reasonable eq controls, but dont stress, a multiband eq pedal can do wonders if the amp is limited.

my main and final point is dont stress the tone of ”this cab vs that.”. The people that hear the difference (and there is a difference) only succeed in spending more money. Beyond extremes like 18 or 8 inch speakers, get something “neutral” and eq the rest to taste.

Too me a “hi fi” cab is a good thing. i would rather my cab can do everything, and cut out what i dont want, than try to dial in what it cant do. so a tweeter is your friend, even if you typically turn it down.

You cant go too far wrong as long as you avoid the really cheap/specialized stuff. Appropriate power for Clean headroom is more key imho than anything.

People get so caught up on tone of this or that, resulting in the purchasing of tons of different gear, when room size/shape, people (lack of), string freshness, the band, etc, YOUR PLAYSTYLE all influence things far more. the crowd cant hear the difference between a vintage bass with fresh strings, or your 2024 model of the same bass with fresh strings. And they probably will not notice a 10 vs 12 unless you try hard to make them sound different with your eq.

 

[utkanos]

I can tell you what NOT to get.

Listening to Ryan Martinie's tone, I don't think you're going to get what you want from an Aggie Tone Hammer - And I LOVE my TH-500.

Nor would I expect an Ampeg RB series to work. Both these amps are more directed toward vintage tones, though the Aggie can do a tighter growl - It just may not have quite the high end you want,

I would steer completely clear of the current Fender Rumble combos. They're capable amps with plenty of bottom end, just nothing like what I'm hearing from Ryan Martinie.

Otherwise I'm following this thread because I LIKE his tone.

Thanks for the heads up, and my feelings on the Rumble exactly. They have tons of bottom end, but not the clarity and hi-fi sound on the top end that I've been chasing... at least in my hands
-----


Thanks folks for all the recs, adding them to my list to audition if I can!

I think my disconnect is getting that stringy/bright tone to sit properly. The reference example in question doesn't even use anything all that exotic, and yet no matter how I try to EQ my sound, I can't get that clarity in the top end. I don't know if I just am not adept at EQing bass guitar as well as I can with guitars or drums or other instruments, but I can't seem to nail that combination of growly low end without the boom, PLUS the slap/pop/snap type top end with effortless harmonics. Even with active basses, getting the harmonics and clucky/stringy tones to jump out as much as I want them to has been difficult. I can dial in great tones all day, but I can't seem to find the magic combination to get what I am hearing on that first Mudvayne record.

I hate to even keep referencing that player specifically because that's just one example of that sound, and I am not chasing one players' sound that heavily.. it was just a handy reference point for the tone I am chasing. I actually don't even want that much distortion or gain at all.

Fresh strings definitely help, technique of course is crucial, but I'm not a novice player by any means and there's just something not quite right. In the modeler, I've actually had way more success using some SVT clone amp and NO cabinet, because I feel like the cabinet IRs I have tried eat way too much of the high end. I hate the cliche of "blanket over the cab" but that's genuinely what it feels like to me to use most bass cabinet IRs. Once I remove the IR, the tone I want is much closer. I feel like I am chasing ghosts with IRs and trying to get the EQ I want and was hoping a real cabinet that's capable of that full spectrum sound could get me closer. I agree with the post about wanting to hear all the frequenices and letting me cut out what I don't need/want after.

All of that said, perhaps I am approaching this wrong, do you think this comes down to EQ choices? I am fairly confident any clean amp with enough headroom is going to be just fine here, but I feel like the cabinet is where I am getting stuck and maybe I'm just thinking about it wrong.

 

[Kaa]

Wouldn't a 10-band EQ pedal dial in the amount of zing you are seeking? Seems like you could find a nice high powered amp head or poweramp, and a nice heavy cab, and get 85% of the way there, with the EQ pedal putting you over the top.

 

[Pocket Dave]

Wouldn't a 10-band EQ pedal dial in the amount of zing you are seeking? Seems like you could find a nice high powered amp head or poweramp, and a nice heavy cab, and get 85% of the way there, with the EQ pedal putting you over the top.

This is a great idea.

Might even consider a good, articulate clean amp like an AG700 with a 10-band EQ and adding boost and gain/overdrive pedals.

 

[utkanos]

Wouldn't a 10-band EQ pedal dial in the amount of zing you are seeking? Seems like you could find a nice high powered amp head or poweramp, and a nice heavy cab, and get 85% of the way there, with the EQ pedal putting you over the top.

That's a great solution, and one I actually have to employ already in my modeler, but I think I haven't been as successful here as I'd like. I mean this in a non-flippant way, but what suggestions would you have on sliders to tweak to target this sound better? Maybe I should repost this as an EQ help question first and foremost, but I swear I've spent hours messing with this stuff and just never gotten better than 85% of the way there. My conclusions from that experience have lead to me to believe that my FRFR just isn't cutting it and that I need a different cabinet design to accentuate the frequencies I'm after.

If you have any pointers on which sliders (assuming 4k/8k range) to target for boosts, and which you'd cut out, I will happily try them in my existing configuration. That solves most of the issue, but not the moving air/feeling bass part that a real cabinet would give me. I think I need to merge these two things into one solution. My modeler has a lot of flexibility, so I can do a traditional 10 band GEQ, or I can get really in the weeds with a parametric EQ, I just need to better understand the specific frequency ranges to target in that approach. It sounds silly, but I have literally spent hours trying to tone shape in this way and just always felt like I'm not where I want to be.