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Double Bass Amp Compare--Combo vs Separates

I have an 'Acoustic Image Coda Series 4 Model 611 AA' combo amp. Works well with DB & EUB. I was wondering how it would compare to a separate amp top and a 12" single cab? Would a 12" cab be the way to go?---better sound with separates? Would a small extension cab 'beef' up the overhaul sound? (My style of music--small jazz combos.)

Your thoughts / experience welcome.
 
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I’ve owned both combos and separates. It’s one of those tomatoes vs tomato’s choices. There is definitely a convenience factor with a small combo.
Currently I use a Traynor SB 106 with a RedEye Preamp for lower volume duos, trios, and the occasional quartet. For other gigs I have scalable powered cabinets and a Headway EDB-2 H.E. preamp or a Grace Designs Felix. One cabinet is a MAS 1/8 while my biggest cabinet is a MAS 4x5.5. Both have 500 watt IcE power amps. Thats a pretty expensive proportion for most players. Although the Acoustic Image Coda works with DB, IME it’s not robust enough for anything moderate volume duo and trio gigs. Rick Jones moved completely away from the down firing cabinets because the Double Shot worked and sounded better So purchasing a bass combo or a small head with cabinet system will improve your sound.
 
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I mostly go for separates.

I own a few combos but my main complaint is that the speakers generally fail before the the power head. This forces you to replace them and stay within that sound even if you want to try something different.

I own a few power heads and speakers where I can tailor what I’m using for a specific venue.

You can take 2 cabinets to some gigs and one for others.

But ……. One really big advantage of the combo is that the system is matched well…. The speakers were designed to match the cabinet requirements and the amp was optimal for powering it.

There are no absolute rules but flexibility is always a huge benefit.
 
What you will find with head/cab using forward firing speakers:

Watt for watt, usually louder. I have hooked up a Bergantino 12" as an extension to my Coda sIII and it was screaming loud in comaprision to the built in speaker. The reason is it's more efficient, by well over 10dB. It's also going to be more directional than an AI downfiring cab where the low end spreads across the floor in all directions. If the cab is on the floor and not aimed at your ears you will not hear it as loud as the audience will. Depending on the cabinet you choose it could have a very different voicing in the midrange.

When I'm doubling, I use a Walter Woods head with the Berg speaker for both the DB and the BG. The DB sound is a lot different than what I get fromn th Coda on DB only gigs. Not neccessarily better, just different.
 
I have alot of different demands on my gear due to varied types of playing situations, from fairly large outdoor doubling gigs (4 pc fairly loud drummer band) to a small, intimate guitar trio playing mostly latin/bossa nova. For me, modular is the way to go so that I can pick and choose as needed. I have two amp heads, but mostly use an Acoustic Image Clarus SL. I also use a small pedalboard that has a tuner, Redeye double preamp that lets me toggle between electric and upright quickly, with different input levels, and a few effects pedals. For cabinets, my primary cab is a RevSound 112. Its lightweight (21 lbs), small footprint, and very capable of handling all but the largest gigs by itself. I also have a 115 that I sometimes use in combination with the 112, but only for electric bass large gigs w/o PA support. If I was doing alot of gigging with the smaller trio I might also get an even smaller cabinet to go with the AI, or a combo - but honestly, the 112 is such an easy carry that I really don't need anything more.

BTW I just recently bought the AI head - Golihur got ahold of their remaining inventory and is selling them at deep discounts. There's some question about AI tech support in the long term with their demise, but honestly they are so well built that I'm not really concerned. From what I can tell, there are many TB members who have used AI gear for years if not decades wihout any issues.
 
All good words, just as a bit different approach, I haven’t used dual matching cabinets for quite a while. I tried it with two Euphonic Audio VL-108’s
and my Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra. That setup was very prone to feeding back. Conversely, a EA VL-208 worked flawlessly. Just my take however.
 
BTW I just recently bought the AI head - Golihur got ahold of their remaining inventory and is selling them at deep discounts. There's some question about AI tech support in the long term with their demise, but honestly they are so well built that I'm not really concerned. From what I can tell, there are many TB members who have used AI gear for years if not decades wihout any issues.

I would anticipate that Acoustic Image has schematics for all their amplifiers and since they use IcE power amplifiers which are standardized, should the power amp section have issues it can be relatively easily replaced. They also use Eminence speakers.
 
All good words, just as a bit different approach, I haven’t used dual matching cabinets for quite a while. I tried it with two Euphonic Audio VL-108’s
and my Walter Woods Electroacoustic Ultra. That setup was very prone to feeding back. Conversely, a EA VL-208 worked flawlessly. Just my take however.
Agreed, dual cabs for URB is overkill (and probably more prone to feedback). Honestly one cabinet is enough for what I do 95% of the time.
 
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I would anticipate that Acoustic Image has schematics for all their amplifiers and since they use IcE power amplifiers which are standardized, should the power amp section have issues it can be relatively easily replaced. They also use Eminence speakers.
Agree - there was a TB thread with someone wo had an issue with an AI head. The tech he had look at it initially was concerned about non-availability of schematics - apparently they contacted the AI next-of-kin who was able to provide them. I imagine that once things settle out, they'll be available. The other factor for me was that in my 50+ yrs of using bass amps, I only had a problem with one one time, and it was a preamp tube that was easily resolved. I figure that by sticking to top-shelf manufacturers like AI, the likelhood of problems emerging is small.
 
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Assuming the separates and combo use the exact some speaker and amp design, you are unlikely to hear any difference. Since you are not comparing apples to apple, you should expect the two options to sound different. Which sounds best depends largely on your taste and expectations. You might like the combo best and I may think the separates sound way better.

Small combos can be a bit more convenient, because you only have to grab the amp and power cable. With separates you need to grab amp, cab, power cable, speaker cable.

I generally prefer separates because it allows me to choose whatever amp and speaker I like. Each model of amp has it's own personality and characteristics. Each speaker has it's own personality and characteristics. In the majority of cases, I think the speaker tends to make more of a difference than the amp, but this is not always true. Some combinations can provide an unexpected gestalt, while others sound bad.

I do own one older combo of decent quality. It's a GK 700RB/112 combo. I chose it because it was the best amp (within budget) I could find that would fit in the trunk of my Dodge Neon. I would have preferred the 115 version but it was too big. The 210 version also fit in the trunk, but I thought the 112 sounded better. However, I have never been complete thrilled with the sound of this amp on the floor as the lows tend to be pretty loose and woolly. Elevating the cab helps considerably.

My last touring rig typically used a rack mixer and QSC power amp pushing an Eden D210XLT. IMHO this rig sounded way better than the little GK combo and it also could play considerably louder. It worked great for tours because it was packed in a rolling rack and loaded into a cargo truck. For local gigs where I would typically travel by myself while transporting my gear in compact car, the little GK was a better choice.

IMHO the best thing you can do is try to play a bunch of different amps and cabs. Keep note of the combinations you like and also consider size, weight, cost, and if they play loud enough for your needs.

Keep in mind, volume is not dependent solely on how much power the amp can make. AI made some relatively powerful amps, but their speaker were extremely inefficient. It think max SPL of their most potent combination was only rated for 118dB, which is not quite a enough for most cover bands, although works fine in quieter settings.

Years ago, one of my peers bought the original acoustic image combo amp with a matching extension speaker. The intent was to use this rig in big band. The cabs would be place on opposite sides of the band to allow everyone to hear the bass better.

The amp sounded great and was super portable, but it was not quite loud enough for big band. It worked great for jazz combo though as it was very small and light. A nice grab and go option, rather than dealing with a big amp.
 
Assuming the separates and combo use the exact some speaker and amp design, you are unlikely to hear any difference. Since you are not comparing apples to apple, you should expect the two options to sound different. Which sounds best depends largely on your taste and expectations. You might like the combo best and I may think the separates sound way better.

Small combos can be a bit more convenient, because you only have to grab the amp and power cable. With separates you need to grab amp, cab, power cable, speaker cable.

I generally prefer separates because it allows me to choose whatever amp and speaker I like. Each model of amp has it's own personality and characteristics. Each speaker has it's own personality and characteristics. In the majority of cases, I think the speaker tends to make more of a difference than the amp, but this is not always true. Some combinations can provide an unexpected gestalt, while others sound bad.

I do own one older combo of decent quality. It's a GK 700RB/112 combo. I chose it because it was the best amp (within budget) I could find that would fit in the trunk of my Dodge Neon. I would have preferred the 115 version but it was too big. The 210 version also fit in the trunk, but I thought the 112 sounded better. However, I have never been complete thrilled with the sound of this amp on the floor as the lows tend to be pretty loose and woolly. Elevating the cab helps considerably.

My last touring rig typically used a rack mixer and QSC power amp pushing an Eden D210XLT. IMHO this rig sounded way better than the little GK combo and it also could play considerably louder. It worked great for tours because it was packed in a rolling rack and loaded into a cargo truck. For local gigs where I would typically travel by myself while transporting my gear in compact car, the little GK was a better choice.

IMHO the best thing you can do is try to play a bunch of different amps and cabs. Keep note of the combinations you like and also consider size, weight, cost, and if they play loud enough for your needs.

Keep in mind, volume is not dependent solely on how much power the amp can make. AI made some relatively powerful amps, but their speaker were extremely inefficient. It think max SPL of their most potent combination was only rated for 118dB, which is not quite a enough for most cover bands, although works fine in quieter settings.

Years ago, one of my peers bought the original acoustic image combo amp with a matching extension speaker. The intent was to use this rig in big band. The cabs would be place on opposite sides of the band to allow everyone to hear the bass better.

The amp sounded great and was super portable, but it was not quite loud enough for big band. It worked great for jazz combo though as it was very small and light. A nice grab and go option, rather than dealing with a big amp.

Good input as usual from @Wasnex. I concur on AI speaker sensitivity/output. The only AI product that I was ever dissappointed in was an Upshot cabinet. It put out barely enough volume for a quiet trio (drummer, guitar), with a Clarus SL head. I use the same head now with a RevSound 112 and its more than enough, with plenty of power in reserve.
 
I‘ve taken a combo amp with a removable head. In my case a Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0-10T. Some AI combos also can release the amp from the combo.
This is a great way to have both, a combo for convenience with a fixed pairing or separate amp and cab if you want, but not in a single package.

Unfortunalely none of these designs is available new any longer.
 
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I love combos for a simpler setup, but it's proved impractical for the varying gigs I do. I've settled on a sort of modular setup.

My preamp chain never changes. I run that into the effects loop on my head, and split with a DI box if needed so that the same signal goes to my cabinets and FOH. Then I have two identical 2x10 cabinets. Usually if I'm playing outdoors or a decent sized rock club I bring both cabinets. Otherwise it's a single cabinet. At places where I trust the sound setup and monitors, I'll just run my preamp chain into the board without any amp.

It's a means to keep my amplified "sound" the same no matter what the gig. Even when I DI, they get my post signal so that I can tweak everything from the stage whether they like it or not!
 
There have been several great combos designed and built in past years that are no longer avaliable. The Phil Jones Super Flight Case and Gentz Benz Shuttle Series, Acoustic Image Doubleshot Combo et.al. The problem seems to stem from the fact that bass combos aren’t staying in production. We had the GK 200MB, MBS, and MBE for at least 20 years or more, but within the last 7 years, Genz Benz, Phil Jones, Acoustic Image, and Euphonic Audio have all closed their doors while Gallien Krueger stopped production on the MBE and then the MBS. There are the Traynor SB series but they get progressively heavier with each bump in speaker size. The GR Bass combos look incredible but they are expensive. So for the moment separates are easier to configure because there are more options. Just my take of course.
The Fender Rumble’s are also good choice.
 
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There have been several great combos designed and built in past years that are no longer avaliable. The Phil Jones Super Flight Case and Gentz Benz Shuttle Series, Acoustic Image Doubleshot Combo et.al. The problem seems to stem from the fact that bass combos aren’t staying in production. We had the GK 200MB, MBS, and MBE for at least 20 years or more, but within the last 7 years, Genz Benz, Phil Jones, Acoustic Image, and Euphonic Audio have all closed their doors while Gallien Krueger stopped production on the MBE and then the MBS. There are the Traynor SB series but they get progressively heavier with each bump in speaker size. The GR Bass combos look incredible but they are expensive. So for the moment separates are easier to configure because there are more options. Just my take of course.
The Fender Rumble’s are also good choice.
Phil Jones is still in business.
 
Good input as usual from @Wasnex. I concur on AI speaker sensitivity/output. The only AI product that I was ever dissappointed in was an Upshot cabinet. It put out barely enough volume for a quiet trio (drummer, guitar), with a Clarus SL head. I use the same head now with a RevSound 112 and its more than enough, with plenty of power in reserve.
Interesting, might depend on the pickup. I have no problem getting plenty of volume with a Clarus and upshot with anything from trio to big band. Stat B or Yamahiko pickups.
 
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Although now that I think about it, PJB did stop selling for a while. Don't know exactly when, but you're probably right, Ric.

I should of qualified my post. Phil Jones discontinued the Super Flight Case and the Briefcase. They still build and sell the Suitcase.

If I were considering a new combo amplifier this is what I’d be trying to source 19 lbs. 800 Watts, Dual Channel with 2x microphone inputs.

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