Amp decision: TH500 or Puma 500

[sammywalk]

I don't think 'best' is the right description. They are obviously very different price points, and I don't feel that the Puma500 is 'better' than, for example, the Markbass LMIII. It is a touch different, and if you are willing to pay double for the much smaller size and a bit more 'clean clarity' it is probably worth the money.

The GK stuff is amazing for what it does... bright, aggessive, grindy tone, the Markbass stuff is wonderful for its warm, relatively neutral tone. The Genz Shuttle Max 9.2 is the king of EQ power and tight, controlled slam.

I own a Glock Blue Soul, which is significantly more expensive than the Puma900, and it sounds different also (unique combination of super powerful, warm, round low end with massive slam, and a crystal clear, hi fi top end).

Lots of stuff out there. I do think the TH500 is one of the best values out there, but as you found out, only if you enjoy the Aguilar tone profile that is a bit less clean than some amps, and a bit less bright than others... more 'fat, warm and punchy'.

As we discussed above, given you've found a pedal that you like for the dirt, IF you want to have your 'base bass tone' (I should trademark that!) to be clean and relatively neutral, it is hard to beat the Puma stuff, and the Markbass Big Bang comes close if you are on a bit more of a budget!

Okay well I've changed my opinion slightly from before. The truth is, I love the warmth and punch of some amps, its just that warmth (as i've seen with ampeg) often comes with some muddiness. I can't stand muddiness. So If there were an amp that had a nice warm punch in the lows and mids and a clear top end, that would be fantastic (oh hey, I just realized that's almost exactly how you describe the Blue Soul...).

That is my main problem with the TH500. When I hit any note past the high G, the lack of clarity in the high end is extremely obvious.

Considering the TH500 is the only amp I have interest in that I've been able to thoroughly test, I'm basically basing my entire description of what I'm looking for off of my likes and dislikes of that amp.

 

[KJung]

Okay well I've changed my opinion slightly from before. The truth is, I love the warmth and punch of some amps, its just that warmth (as i've seen with ampeg) often comes with some muddiness. I can't stand muddiness. So If there were an amp that had a nice warm punch in the lows and mids and a clear top end, that would be fantastic (oh hey, I just realized that's almost exactly how you describe the Blue Soul...).

That is my main problem with the TH500. When I hit any note past the high G, the lack of clarity in the high end is extremely obvious.

Considering the TH500 is the only amp I have interest in that I've been able to thoroughly test, I'm basically basing my entire description of what I'm looking for off of my likes and dislikes of that amp.

I don't really notice that issue with the TH500, but we all hear things differently (again, the TH500 is fat and chewy, so +1 there). Again, a head in the same price range and pretty much the same output that will be a bit less mid complex, and extend a bit more and be a bit cleaner up top is the Markbass Big Bang. The Puma500 will do that even a touch better for another $400 or so!

The Glock is a whole 'nother thing. Quite different and unique, and BIG money and about twice the size and weight (still relatively small and light) as these others.

 

[shrigg]

I don't really notice that issue with the TH500, but we all hear things differently (again, the TH500 is fat and chewy, so +1 there). Again, a head in the same price range and pretty much the same output that will be a bit less mid complex, and extend a bit more and be a bit cleaner up top is the Markbass Big Bang. The Puma500 will do that even a touch better for another $400 or so!

The Glock is a whole 'nother thing. Quite different and unique, and BIG money and about twice the size and weight (still relatively small and light) as these others.

+1

I've never heard any muddiness in my TH500. I have to ask: OP, what cabs are you using?

 

[KJung]

+1

I've never heard any muddiness in my TH500. I have to ask: OP, what cabs are you using?

What's up! I just picked up a little TH350 for my rehearsal space (with my AE210) and it is killer! It is so friggin' small, and ever bit the quality of the TH500. Nice unit for those who don't need to generate ear bleeding volume.

 

[dukeorock]

Because of all these "can't decide between" amp threads, I put the old power amp back in the rack to test pres. Personally, I thought the TH was pretty great and was dirt cheap (assuming you have a nice power amp). I guess I can see why so many folks are going that direction.

The Big Bang? I dunno. Didn't get to spend much time with it so I won't pretend to know it too well, but seemed pretty gutless...it sure didn't make me want to look into them any deeper.

I'm still using a ShuttleMax 9.2 a lot and don't really have any major complaints

 

[KJung]

Because of all these "can't decide between" amp threads, I put the old power amp back in the rack to test pres. Personally, I thought the TH was pretty great and was dirt cheap (assuming you have a nice power amp). I guess I can see why so many folks are going that direction.

The Big Bang? I dunno. Didn't get to spend much time with it so I won't pretend to know it too well, but seemed pretty gutless...it sure didn't make me want to look into them any deeper.

I'm still using a ShuttleMax 9.2 a lot and don't really have any major complaints

The Big Bang has a nice clean neutral tone. A bit fatter than the FET channel of the Max 9.2., and cleaner upper mids. Pretty nice. Not quite the hammer of the Max 9.2. The TH500 HAMMERS though, but is a bit more chewy and mid complex. All good stuff.

Edit: I'm assuming a resonably efficient 4ohm cab on these. An 8ohm fEARful... I wouldn't use or quite frankly recommend much other than the Max 9.2 or the Puma900.

 

[dukeorock]

The Big Bang has a nice clean neutral tone. A bit fatter than the FET channel of the Max 9.2., and cleaner upper mids. Pretty nice. Not quite the hammer of the Max 9.2. The TH500 HAMMERS though, but is a bit more chewy and mid complex. All good stuff.

Edit: I'm assuming a resonably efficient 4ohm cab on these. An 8ohm fEARful... I wouldn't use or quite frankly recommend much other than the Max 9.2 or the Puma900.

The test wasn't on an 8 ohm cab, or a fEARful, but point taken.

Like I said, I didn't give the Big Bang a solid run thru, but based on a quick test, I didn't love it and I love lots of MB amps, for the record. As an all around solid performer, I get the appeal of the TH for sure. Haven't had the pleasure of hearing a Puma, but am looking forward to that

 

[sammywalk]

The Glock is a whole 'nother thing. Quite different and unique, and BIG money and about twice the size and weight (still relatively small and light) as these others.

Who's to say a "whole 'nother thing" is bad? Maybe thats my main issue here, maybe i just don't have as good of a grasp on what my options are as I thought.

I've never heard any muddiness in my TH500. I have to ask: OP, what cabs are you using?

I'm running through an (american made) Ampeg 4x10.

 

[KJung]

Who's to say a "whole 'nother thing" is bad? Maybe thats my main issue here, maybe i just don't have as good of a grasp on what my options are as I thought.



I'm running through an (american made) Ampeg 4x10.

Cabs make a pretty big difference in all that stuff. I like the sealed Ampeg cabs quite a bit. The ported 410's sound a bit 'flubby' to me, and a head with a lot of low end power like the TH500 can sound a bit, well, flubby with a cab like that.

I'd keep the Aguilar and dump the cab! Seriously, with a very unevenly voiced cab, it is all about EQ power. The Max 9.2 might be your friend there!

 

[Scott McArron]

Okay well I've changed my opinion slightly from before. The truth is, I love the warmth and punch of some amps, its just that warmth (as i've seen with ampeg) often comes with some muddiness. I can't stand muddiness. So If there were an amp that had a nice warm punch in the lows and mids and a clear top end, that would be fantastic (oh hey, I just realized that's almost exactly how you describe the Blue Soul...).

Sounds like my Puma!!

 

[KJung]

Who's to say a "whole 'nother thing" is bad? Maybe thats my main issue here, maybe i just don't have as good of a grasp on what my options are as I thought.



I'm running through an (american made) Ampeg 4x10.

IF you have a good set of headphones, this might be helpful to put my comments/posts in context.

Here is a clip of my 70's style active J bass with reasonably new roundwound strings, through my beloved Markbass F500 set flat, and the Genz Max 9.2, EQ'd to sound relatively close to my F500 set flat (the demo was by request of a TBer). The cab is the amazing Bergantino AE410, which is quite different (more full range and bright and articulate) than most of the Ampeg 410 executions, which are more low end heavy with much less upper mid response.

I find the Markbass F500 set neutral to have much in common with the TecAmp Puma500 set flat, so this might be a data point. This is an example of my definition of 'full range, clean, but warm and musical and not harsh', which are the words I use to describe the current Puma500.

I don't have any TH500 clips, but that head will sound deeper in the absolute low end, and have less 'sparkle' up top, and more midrange complexity/warmth, with a bit of 'roughness/ up top when pushed (in a good way for many).

FYI!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsWHdUHf6eM&feature=player_detailpage

Edit: The Glockenklang Blue Soul sounds WAY bigger down low... super fat and warm, and extends WAY higher into the upper treble stratosphere, with a crystal clear, hi fi sounding top end. It is a head for those who like it fat and warm down low, but who also LOVE the sound of a high quality tweeter driven top end IMO and IME.

 

[GRoberts]

The MB F500 sounds warmer, more balanced and the Shuttlemax FET channels sounds modern, more Hi-Fi in contrast. Did not like the Shuttelmax 9.2 in this contest. Not to say it could not be warmed up. But it's all there with the F500, flat. How easy is that?

IF you have a good set of headphones, this might be helpful to put my comments/posts in context.

Here is a clip of my 70's style active J bass with reasonably new roundwound strings, through my beloved Markbass F500 set flat, and the Genz Max 9.2, EQ'd to sound relatively close to my F500 set flat (the demo was by request of a TBer). The cab is the amazing Bergantino AE410, which is quite different (more full range and bright and articulate) than most of the Ampeg 410 executions, which are more low end heavy with much less upper mid response.

I find the Markbass F500 set neutral to have much in common with the TecAmp Puma500 set flat, so this might be a data point. This is an example of my definition of 'full range, clean, but warm and musical and not harsh', which are the words I use to describe the current Puma500.

I don't have any TH500 clips, but that head will sound deeper in the absolute low end, and have less 'sparkle' up top, and more midrange complexity/warmth, with a bit of 'roughness/ up top when pushed (in a good way for many).

FYI!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsWHdUHf6eM&feature=player_detailpage

Edit: The Glockenklang Blue Soul sounds WAY bigger down low... super fat and warm, and extends WAY higher into the upper treble stratosphere, with a crystal clear, hi fi sounding top end. It is a head for those who like it fat and warm down low, but who also LOVE the sound of a high quality tweeter driven top end IMO and IME.

 

[sammywalk]

IF you have a good set of headphones, this might be helpful to put my comments/posts in context.

Here is a clip of my 70's style active J bass with reasonably new roundwound strings, through my beloved Markbass F500 set flat, and the Genz Max 9.2, EQ'd to sound relatively close to my F500 set flat (the demo was by request of a TBer). The cab is the amazing Bergantino AE410, which is quite different (more full range and bright and articulate) than most of the Ampeg 410 executions, which are more low end heavy with much less upper mid response.

I find the Markbass F500 set neutral to have much in common with the TecAmp Puma500 set flat, so this might be a data point. This is an example of my definition of 'full range, clean, but warm and musical and not harsh', which are the words I use to describe the current Puma500.

I don't have any TH500 clips, but that head will sound deeper in the absolute low end, and have less 'sparkle' up top, and more midrange complexity/warmth, with a bit of 'roughness/ up top when pushed (in a good way for many).

FYI!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsWHdUHf6eM&feature=player_detailpage

Well I really like the way that F500 sounds, but I'm not sure how much of what I like about it is coming from that amazing Bergantino AE410.

 

[KJung]

Well I really like the way that F500 sounds, but I'm not sure how much of what I like about it is coming from that amazing Bergantino AE410.

+1 Hard to determine 'what is what'. Those pieces of gear really work nicely together, since they are all relatively clean, bright, and punchy, which is what I go for in a mix.

Anyway, just a data point to let you know what I mean by 'warm, clean, articulate'. Might or might not be your thing.

 

[sammywalk]

+1 Hard to determine 'what is what'. Those pieces of gear really work nicely together, since they are all relatively clean, bright, and punchy, which is what I go for in a mix.

Anyway, just a data point to let you know what I mean by 'warm, clean, articulate'. Might or might not be your thing.

So, what we're saying is that I need to save up for a Bergantino cab.

 

[KJung]

So, what we're saying is that I need to save up for a Bergantino cab.

Not going there! Next I'll be recommending a new car for you to buy

 

[Jawbone]

I see what you're saying. But why are you telling me to give up on my options for an amp you dont even know much about?

Have you tried any of their other amps? they seem interesting. How about you KJung?

Because the amount of money you're willing to spend on a Puma would bring all sorts of great options to you, including all tube amps. For one, the coin you're throwing at a Puma could land you the Fender Bassman 100T. A superb amp, and not all that heavy to cart around. Both clean and dirty in one box.

When you're range is 600-1200 there are many options available. Why limit yourself to TH500 (which I have tried and don't find all that impressive) and the Puma (which I know nothing about). KJung is correct: the Markbass +500w amps are great deals.

 

[GRoberts]

Because the amount of money you're willing to spend on a Puma would bring all sorts of great options to you, including all tube amps. For one, the coin you're throwing at a Puma could land you the Fender Bassman 100T. A superb amp, and not all that heavy to cart around. Both clean and dirty in one box.

When you're range is 600-1200 there are many options available. Why limit yourself to TH500 (which I have tried and don't find all that impressive) and the Puma (which I know nothing about). KJung is correct: the Markbass +500w amps are great deals.

Somebody looking at a TH500, Puma or Markbass are not typically a candidate for a Fender Bassman 100T, but your point about prices and performance and tone is well taken!

 

[Jawbone]

The Big Bang has a nice clean neutral tone. A bit fatter than the FET channel of the Max 9.2., and cleaner upper mids. Pretty nice. Not quite the hammer of the Max 9.2. The TH500 HAMMERS though, but is a bit more chewy and mid complex. All good stuff.

Edit: I'm assuming a resonably efficient 4ohm cab on these. An 8ohm fEARful... I wouldn't use or quite frankly recommend much other than the Max 9.2 or the Puma900.

I was sort of following you with your adjectives, but...

"more chewy and mid complex" Now we're getting creative! Sounds like we're describing a fine wine now.

 

[sammywalk]

I've been entirely open to any other amp suggestions! It's just that nobody is suggesting anything else.

And I don't want to start a riot, but I'm beginning to feel like tube amps are a thing of the past. I understand their benefits, but I dont feel like its anything that can't be recreated in a smaller, cheaper, more reliable way.

But let's try to stay on topic!!