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Amp decision: TH500 or Puma 500

#61
Jawbone said:
I was sort of following you with your adjectives, but...

"more chewy and mid complex" Now we're getting creative! Sounds like we're describing a fine wine now.:D
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I do get a bit mouthy on this stuff. The Aguilar just has more 'distortion' in the midrange, and does not extend nearly as high in the treble as some other amps like the Puma and F500. That makes it sound, well, 'chewy'. It is not particularly a 'bap bap bap' sort of super clean solid state amp. There is a bit of blurring of the notes, like when you push an all tube amp a bit, which can sound very good in a mix... fat, round, warm, and 'tube-like' in that the upper mids and top end aren't totally clean.

I totally dig that with my P Bass. With my ash/maple J, I like a bit more of an immediate 'snap' like with the Puma, the F500.

The Genz Max 9.2 is a bit 'brighter and tighter' yet (as you might have seen/heard in my comparison clip, I had to boost the low end and low mids of the Max 9.2 to match the flat tone of the F500. In the extreme, the GK micro's are REALLY bright and treble extended, with a big low end.
 
#62
GRoberts said:
Somebody looking at a TH500, Puma or Markbass are not typically a candidate for a Fender Bassman 100T, but your point about prices and performance and tone is well taken!
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Thanks, but I disagree with one point. The Class D amps are good and provide a lot of entry level options in to our world of bass. Obviously some perform better than others, some have more features than others, and all are voiced differently on purpose.

But what is happening with the beginner or uninformed bassist is they read all the mega threads on TB and think that class D is the only option sometimes.

IMO: most experienced players have switched to the class d for a variety of reasons: their light weight and most are just tired of humping their old SVTs around, they "KNOW" the tone they are looking for and can dial it in with the properly voiced class d, most are experienced enough with EQing and effects that they can handle the different voicing and dial in their tone.

For me though (old school), until you play through an all tube amp you have no idea what you're looking for in tone. Basic compressed tube tone! When I started playing in the 70's you bought a Fender P or J and a Peavey and we're off to the races. Fortunately every place I practiced or played back then had the standard Basmman, Sunn or Kustom setup.

Maybe the under 30 group are born with "digital ears" these days. Have to admit that's all they've ever listen to: iTunes, iPods, iPad, their computers hooked up to a S/S receiver or TV, digital receivers in their cars, Dr D Beats - totally digital world for most.

Guess my ears are just different - I'm so glad I was born in the analog world.:hyper:
 
#63
Jawbone said:
Thanks, but I disagree with one point. The Class D amps are good and provide a lot of entry level options in to our world of bass. Obviously some perform better than others, some have more features than others, and all are voiced differently on purpose.

But what is happening with the beginner or uninformed bassist is they read all the mega threads on TB and think that class D is the only option sometimes.

IMO: most experienced players have switched to the class d for a variety of reasons: their light weight and most are just tired of humping their old SVTs around, they "KNOW" the tone they are looking for and can dial it in with the properly voiced class d, most are experienced enough with EQing and effects that they can handle the different voicing and dial in their tone.

For me though (old school), until you play through an all tube amp you have no idea what you're looking for in tone. Basic compressed tube tone! When I started playing in the 70's you bought a Fender P or J and a Peavey and we're off to the races. Fortunately every place I practiced or played back then had the standard Basmman, Sunn or Kustom setup.

Maybe the under 30 group are born with "digital ears" these days. Have to admit that's all they've ever listen to: iTunes, iPods, iPad, their computers hooked up to a S/S receiver or TV, digital receivers in their cars, Dr D Beats - totally digital world for most.

Guess my ears are just different - I'm so glad I was born in the analog world.:hyper:
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+1 An all tube amp is a different thing. I, myself, hate them and the day I got rid of my V4B for a GK400rb in the 80's was the happiest day of my life. No more tone 'changing' as the band pumped up, no more of the amp 'compressing' like nuts when you hit a slap passage, etc.

Calling class D amps 'entry level options' is LOL ridiculous. Like, eventually, we will work our way up to a tube amp!!!!

I find that the current line-up of solid state amps is simply amazing. If you like an all tube amp, that is a different thing for sure, and definitely a valid choice. Thank god I don't like them much! There are many pictures of guys with their Genz heads or Walter Woods heads sitting on top of an SVT driving a rented backline fridge because they actually like the sound a LOT better. There are other guys who love that tube 'give' and variation.

All is good! But, man, you couldn't pay me to play an all tube amp live again. Of course, I'm not a rock and roller, so different strokes!

Edit: And remember, class D has NOTHING to do with digital... it is not. And, there are also micro heads that are class A/B, like the amazing LMIII. Lots of ways to get a good tone!
 
#64
Jawbone said:
Thanks, but I disagree with one point. The Class D amps are good and provide a lot of entry level options in to our world of bass. Obviously some perform better than others, some have more features than others, and all are voiced differently on purpose.

But what is happening with the beginner or uninformed bassist is they read all the mega threads on TB and think that class D is the only option sometimes.

IMO: most experienced players have switched to the class d for a variety of reasons: their light weight and most are just tired of humping their old SVTs around, they "KNOW" the tone they are looking for and can dial it in with the properly voiced class d, most are experienced enough with EQing and effects that they can handle the different voicing and dial in their tone.

For me though (old school), until you play through an all tube amp you have no idea what you're looking for in tone. Basic compressed tube tone! When I started playing in the 70's you bought a Fender P or J and a Peavey and we're off to the races. Fortunately every place I practiced or played back then had the standard Basmman, Sunn or Kustom setup.

Maybe the under 30 group are born with "digital ears" these days. Have to admit that's all they've ever listen to: iTunes, iPods, iPad, their computers hooked up to a S/S receiver or TV, digital receivers in their cars, Dr D Beats - totally digital world for most.

Guess my ears are just different - I'm so glad I was born in the analog world.:hyper:
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Oh I totally agree. Hence the differentiating word "Typically."
I've gone down the road from class D to rack mount lead sled and now I am back to striking a balance of tube tone with the back-friendly sensibility that Class D amps offer in size and weight.

If someone is totally choosing based on tone, response and performance, then the fender Bassman 100T becomes an excellent choice. But in my experience, those considering; TH500, Streamliner, Markbass amps, Genz Benz Shuttles amps, that is not the "Typical" player who would consider a Fender Bassman 100T. That's all.

I struck a balance of size and weight with an Orange TB500H. It has a tube front end. Still, the AD200 Orange is all tube and is apparently an exceptional Tube amp. But for me, I'm done carrying around an amp that is big and heavy.

I was born with Analog ears too. But with all the hearing damage I've incurred, I may be closer to the digital ear gang these days. sigh. :hmm:
 
#66
MetroBass said:
KJung, GRoberts, Jawbone:

All good points! Hope the teen finds what he's looking for.
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:p I love this stuff. I understand what Jawbone is saying, but whenever an 'all tube' guy stomps all over my beloved class D amps, I feel like he just called my sister ugly:D Of course, my sister might actually be ugly, but I try not to think about that.
 
#67
ALL Tubes heads and I do not get along either. They just seem unnecessary for my real-world local Pro gigs. What I love about tube amp tone is the sweetness and presence that I hear compared with 'most' or many non-tube based designs. (Not all)

I sometimes wonder if those who love and covet an "all-tube" amp are simply over generalizing the great tone they remember or like from an all-tube amp.

To me the downsides of an "all-tube" amp outweigh the benefits when a Hyrbid designed amp (tube front end and Class AB, Class D or other power section) offers an ideal mix of tone, power, punch in a package that is easy to use, move and haul around.
 
#68
Whew, you guys are all over the place! I told you not to get into an argument about tube amps... :rolleyes:

I'm gonna have to agree with KJung on this one; I want my tone to be good at any volume!

I can find enjoyment in any amp though, whether its tube, solid state, or hybrid. It just seems like the more I look into things, the more I find myself seeing Class D amps provide the best (subjective of course) amps for ever type of playing style.
 
#69
sammywalk said:
Whew, you guys are all over the place! I told you not to get into an argument about tube amps... :rolleyes:

I'm gonna have to agree with KJung on this one; I want my tone to be good at any volume!

I can find enjoyment in any amp though, whether its tube, solid state, or hybrid. It just seems like the more I look into things, the more I find myself seeing Class D amps provide the best (subjective of course) amps for ever type of playing style.
Click to expand...

None of this is an argument at all. Not in my view. I agree with you completely ...and Ken too.
 

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