I use a Genzler SLT123 with an AI Clarus (both from Gollihur). Sounds super pure and gets very loud. It’s a killer rig. Also gets lots of compliments on tone.
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Double Bass Amp For Bluegrass
- Thread starter Quinn Roberts
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I use a Genzler SLT123 with an AI Clarus (both from Gollihur). Sounds super pure and gets very loud. It’s a killer rig. Also gets lots of compliments on tone.
That's interesting. I have not read any other posts that suggests the AI cabs frequently self destruct at low volume levels, but I have read several posts that suggests that don't work well in highly reverberant spaces.
Also I believe they don't tend to carry into the distance as well as more traditional cabs. I believe these last two problems are related to the dispersion characteristics. I am in agreement with you that the AI cabs are not generally suited for my needs though, but they can be pretty cool in some settings.
I used to own an Acme B2. It barely met my SPL needs, but was fabulous with upright. Not necessarily an authentic upright sound as the sub bass is very strong with these cabs. The Low B2 sensitivity rating was 93dB 1W/1m, so I believe the Low B1 would be 90dB 1W/1m (possibly the same as the DoubleShot)
A point I am trying to make clear is you can't judge how loud a rig will play by the power rating of the amp. You must consider the available wattage and the sensitivity rating of the cab. As I mentioned above, a BA10-2 should make 120dB with 250 watts, while a DoubleShot only makes 118dB with 600W. The reason is because the B10-2 has a 96dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating versus the DoubleShot's estimated 90dB 1W/1m.
As you may know, SPL increases approximately 3dB everytime you double the power. The BA10-2 starts out 6dB louder with 1W. The DoubleShot will need 4W to play at the same volume.
As far as competing with a 20W guitar amp. If the guitar amp is cranked to it's limit into an efficient speaker, then it does not surprise me that a DoubleShot is not loud enough. Let's assume a 96dB sensitivity rating, which is on the low side for a guitar speaker. The decibel change from 1-20 is about 13dB. So max SPL is 96+13=109db.
The DoubleShot plays at 118dB max, so it is technically 9dB louder. But let's look at the 110 phon curve on the Fletcher Munson graph.
At about 1,000hz the 110 phon is equivalent to 110dB. Between 3,000 and 5,000hz, 110 phon is under 100dB. If the guitar has distortion it will have a lot of energy in this range. I believe this is sort of the ice pick in the ear frequency range.
Now for bass: By about 90hz you require 115db to produce 110 phon. By 50hz you require 120dB to produce 110 phon. The point is bass must actually be louder to be perceived as equal volume with guitar.
The 118dB produce by the DoubleShot may be a calculated value rather than a measured value, as this is how many companies report their specs. Due to power compression, the actual max SPL may be 114dB or lower.
In truth, I've always had more power than I needed, with either of my MAS 1/8 powered cabinets (v1 500 watts/v2 900 watts). Since I'm doing mostly trio jazz and cabaret gigs. they seem to
work well. I have a bigger powered MAS 4x5.5 cabinet for auditorium stuff. Any louder than that and it's into the mains. My preamps are solid (a Grace Felix and the new Headway EDB-2 H.E.) I like
the AI heads a lot.
work well. I have a bigger powered MAS 4x5.5 cabinet for auditorium stuff. Any louder than that and it's into the mains. My preamps are solid (a Grace Felix and the new Headway EDB-2 H.E.) I like
the AI heads a lot.
Markbass works for me. As a cello player arco is mainly it, but I do a good share of playing pizz bass lines in my duo. I use a Markbass 121P with four and/or five string acoustic cello and, if needed, electric bass (A/B switched on stage). The fiver cello has a low F. Using a Realist Copperhead the arco sound is much better than other amp and pickup combos I’ve used. Not that nasally whine and I do not need heavy eq tweaking. A preamp signal boost makes a difference for me.
Speakers have much more of an impact on the sound than the amp driving them.
The Clarus will be sqeaky clean next to the Rumble, but will likely not sound much like running it through AI's own cabs. It will work fine with BG, but it won't sound like a typical bass amp...closer to the uncolored sound of a DI.
You might just try some radical EQ with your Rumble first. I had one for a short while and found to get it to sound similar to my Walter Woods and AI amps with EQ all set to 12:00 plugged into the same cabs, I had to set bass to 9:00, low mids full CCW, engage contour (scoops out even more low mids). In other words, the low mids are heavily emphasized which flatters BG but is a disaster with DB.
The Clarus will be sqeaky clean next to the Rumble, but will likely not sound much like running it through AI's own cabs. It will work fine with BG, but it won't sound like a typical bass amp...closer to the uncolored sound of a DI.
You might just try some radical EQ with your Rumble first. I had one for a short while and found to get it to sound similar to my Walter Woods and AI amps with EQ all set to 12:00 plugged into the same cabs, I had to set bass to 9:00, low mids full CCW, engage contour (scoops out even more low mids). In other words, the low mids are heavily emphasized which flatters BG but is a disaster with DB.
I'll give this a try. I'll still be keeping the Rumble as a backup if I ever need it so it'd be worthwhile to keep trying to get a nice sound out of it.
Just for reference what do you mean by "CCW"; counterclockwise as in turned all the way down?
I'll admit I am more of a lower end gear player but GB Shuttle 3.0 was my go to for years and now it is the TC Electronic BAM200. BAM is a great little head for upright IME.
Nice to hear some experience from a bowed perspective. Can't say I'd be in many a situation where I'd have to use it for arco, but it'd be nice to know I could if the inspiration struck!
Almost think it'd be interesting to start a new thread with a poll that's takes from the recommendations posted here to see what is the favorite amp among double bass players on TB.
Well,
This topic has been discussed many times in our Talkbass DB threads. The consensus that for the most part
everyone’s experience is different. While there are amps that are definitely preferred for Double Bass many players
use amps because they are affordable. Just my take however.
This topic has been discussed many times in our Talkbass DB threads. The consensus that for the most part
everyone’s experience is different. While there are amps that are definitely preferred for Double Bass many players
use amps because they are affordable. Just my take however.
I second this statement. My opinion is that DB amplification involves so many factors and compromises that obsessing about the needed gear is bound to disappoint (and lighten the wallet considerably). As long as I can hear it, the audience can hear it, and it sounds reasonably like a DB, I'm satisfied.
When I played amplified DB in the 1970s, I had a Barcus-Berry bridge, a Fender Bassman head, and a Peavey 2-15" cab, with no impedance buffering. Sounded bad and fed back readily, but guess what? I was still successful. Now, my KNA DB-1 pickup straight into my little Traynor SB112 sounds enormously better. I'm happy.
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Some other factors:
1. The definition of ideal sound varies from one person to the next.
2. People often pursue the idea of My Bass Only Louder. The problem is the bass sounds different from different angles and distances. Which angle and distance do you mean?
3. In my experience, the way we perceive the instrument varies depending on if we are playing or simply listening. When I play I tend to want to hear the instrument louder and more clearly than when I am listening. IMHO most people want to be about 6-10dB louder than necessary to balance with surrounding sound sources. The act of playing seems to eliminate my ability to hear some of the nuance, so I feel less connected with the instrument, thus the desire for an additional 6-10dB.
4. Room acoustics have a massive impact on the sound, and often make it difficult to impossible to get a really good bass sound.
I love the way different instruments sound, and I am a bit of a perfectionist by nature. Decades ago I learned that it is really freeing to stop chasing tone. If you chase tone you will be constantly trying to achieve the impossible. Instead you need to develop realistic expectations for what is possible and learn to accept "good enough." "Good enough" is situational because acoustics vary widely from one venue to the next. Once you get to and accept "good enough," you are free to focus on and enjoy playing.
You also need to develop a certain knowledge base and skill set. The idea is you need to have an understanding of the factors that are working against you, and the tools and skills necessary to massage your sound so it is "good enough."
Reading about acoustics, sound propagation, and mixing techniques can really help (IMHO). Understand that you will play with a lot of people whose grasp of the problem and appropriate solutions are all wrong. The approach many people take is self-centered. Turn up until I can hear clearly. IMHO, The volume of each instrument should be driven by balancing properly in the mix at the audience's position rather than each musician hearing themself as loud as they want. It's usually impossible for every to get the desired 6-10dB...and if one person takes it by force, everyone else gets screwed.
I scrolled by too quickly and read “Amp for Burglars.” I thought this was going to be about decoys.
…and now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
…and now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
