Amp Head with Onboard Guitar-like Gain?

[HouseBroat]

I’ve been playing bass exclusively through an Orange Dual Terror guitar amp head and an Ampeg Portaflex PF-230 HE cab, running the gain nearly maxed out. Recently, I decided to transition to a dedicated bass amp to bring in some more focused low end. After poring over reviews and forums, I bought an Orange Terror Bass 500 head, thinking this would be the perfect compromise, and have been in for a rude awakening.

The Dual Terror’s tube saturation and high gain did wonders in smoothing over my sloppy technique. The Terror Bass isn't nearly as forgiving and the gain I've found isn't as gritty or hairy as I’d hoped. It's really pretty farty and requires pedals to bring the heavy sludge-gaze. Now, I’m on the hunt for a bass amp head, tube or solid-state, that can deliver the rich saturation and drive of a guitar amp’s onboard gain without relying on pedals. I’m looking in the $800–$1,000 range, and it doesn’t need crazy high wattage or headroom. I feel like maybe this doesn't exist, but I'm hoping someone knows of a unicorn.

 

[ahbass2500]

Ashdown CTM series may be worth a shot. I only have the CTM15, but the gain knob on it might as well be an overdrive knob. Low gain is clean. Anything above low goes from a little bit of grit to full overdrive.

 

[silky smoove]

If the guitar amp was giving you what you wanted, why bother switching to an amp that's not?

 

[HouseBroat]

If the guitar amp was giving you what you wanted, why bother switching to an amp that's not?

The guitar is amp is pretty middy, and doesn't have great bass response. I'm trying to have my pie and eat it too, ya know?

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Umm...Guessing a lower-wattage Ampeg head like the V4B with "early breakup" tubes could get you there? The Traynor YBA200 got me there at 200w, you can find them used with decent effort. The newer Fender Bassman all-tube heads did have a high-gain channel IIRC, or maybe a PF50-T from Ampeg could do the trick?

While not EXACTLY the same as tube overdriven saturation, there are a lot of great Bass OD or Distortion pedals that could get you there (Darkglass, Sushibox, Origin Effects, etc.). This with a clean running amp will get you headroom, or you could run a clean blend under the distorted signal to give it more oomph in the mix. I know Dug from King's X did a bi-amp rig for years, Tech 21 made a signature pedal for him that is supposed to replicate the vibe of that setup pretty well. Darkglass and some of their "djent-focused" offerings may get what you're looking for too...might wanna look at the B3K or B7K pedals from them.

 

[JFlo]

First off, I think it's awfully limiting to rule out pedals. I prefer dirt to come from a pedal into a cleanish amp, that way it is not volume dependent. If the sound you love comes from the overdriven preamp of your Dual Terror, then you have lots of pedal based options. If the sound you love is from overdriven EL84 power tubes in your Dual Terror, then nothing but that or emulation (Helix, Tonex, Quad Cortex etc) will get you there. Having said that, there is the Wounded Paw Siege Engine amp Siege Engine Bass Amplifier : Wounded Paw Audio, hand built amps and effects that I would love to try. It's the only bass amp I'm aware of with multiband distortion built in. If you're willing to try a pedal, the Orange Bass Butler will give you a biamped sound and I believe the dirt channel is based on a Rockerverb.

 

[silky smoove]

The guitar is amp is pretty middy, and doesn't have great bass response. I'm trying to have my pie and eat it too, ya know?

Fair enough. At this point I'll agree with others and say that if you want the feel of a bass amp and the drive/grind of a guitar amp, your best bet is to add additional signal processing to a bass amp. That's likely in the form of a pedal. If you don't want to use the pedal in the typical way (i.e. on the floor), you could just keep it on the amp head as an always-on part of the signal path.

 

[Nuisance]

Might want to also look at Darkglass amps.

 

[LowG]

I know you said no pedals, but try running a simple bass eq pedal in the fx loop of the Dual Terror with the low end boosted. When I use guitar amps in ways similar to you I’ve had great success doing that. If you Velcro it to the amp, it’s almost like not using a pedal

 

[logdrum]

Genz Benz Streamliner with the boost engaged.

I think I had more juice to go (2 o'clock on the gain dial). Here's how bit sounded from a passive bass with flats.

 

[waveman]

Fair enough. At this point I'll agree with others and say that if you want the feel of a bass amp and the drive/grind of a guitar amp, your best bet is to add additional signal processing to a bass amp. That's likely in the form of a pedal. If you don't want to use the pedal in the typical way (i.e. on the floor), you could just keep it on the amp head as an always-on part of the signal path.

Bummer that the Dual doesn't have preamp out to run to the Orange bass amp.

Maybe try the Orange Terror Stamp Guitar line out to the bass amp would render similar tones, and you get a 20W amp the size of a pedal to boot

 

[Boneless]

Do what Lemmy did, get a Marshall bass tube head (or maybe his was a guitar head?) and just max everything.

 

[higain617]

^^JCM 800

 

[Fortyweight]

George from Dropdead uses a snk pedals amp lately, a guiterhead with a 300 watt class d module, might be worth checking it out.

 

[Boneless]

^^JCM 800

It came in both versions though.

 

[EastDakota]

What about a pedal preamp into one of the Orange's power amps? With JCM showing up in here, something like his JC Emerald might be a good fit:

JC Emerald – Sushi Box FX

My other thought would be in the Sunn vein, any of the derivatives/clones/etc. with blendable normal and bright gain.

 

[rojo412]

The GK Backline 600 head is a dual channel with one clean and one distorted.
And while it does have function, the distortion channel gets more "buzzsaw" than "beefy anger" so it kinda loses the bass response a bit. But the gain on that channel is very much guitar-like.

 

[MCS4]

The guitar is amp is pretty middy, and doesn't have great bass response. I'm trying to have my pie and eat it too, ya know?

I think the problem you will find is that the highly sculpted (middy) tone of a guitar amp and the generally much higher gain on tap compared to a bass amp is part of the sound that you like, which can be difficult or possibly impossible to replicate on most bass amps by themselves. That is why, in my experience, like others here, the best way to have your pie and eat it too is to put a drive pedal in front of a bass amp and to use that pedal both to pump up the gain and to sculpt the EQ in a way that mimics a guitar amp to some degree but not so much as to remove the extra fullness from the bass amp, so you end up somewhere in the middle but in a way that is more "best of both worlds" than a compromise.

 

[Hasty]

The Dual Terror’s tube saturation and high gain did wonders in smoothing over my sloppy technique. The Terror Bass isn't nearly as forgiving and the gain I've found isn't as gritty or hairy as I’d hoped.

Probably an unpopular opinion on TalkBass... but maybe more practice on technique and less practice spending money to cover it up?

 

[JC Nelson]

Does the Orange OB1-500 have enough distortion for your needs?