Amp like tone for ear monitors?

[Fair Warning]

Honestly, this is the reason I don't use IEM. I hate missing all the juiciness going on in the room from my tone......

 

[Nickweissmusic]

the church I play at recently switched to headphone monitoring for the rhythm section. We are using a system called KLANG that uses an app on my phone or tablet so I can adjust my individual mix. It's a great idea and works quite well except for the tone of my bass signal. It's so raw and I can't stand it. It's very metallic and sometimes thin and picks up a lot of clank and string noise. I understand the foh need that unaltered dry signal for them, but I don't want that tone for myself. So here's the question

How can I get a nice and full, warm, amp/cab tone as my monitor tone with out affecting the foh?
I thought a preamp DI might work, such as a tone hammer or sansamp but where would I place that so that tone is just for my monitor mix?

My set up right now with this new system is my bass with an Audere pre into a passive DI box to foh

Thanks for any help. Also if you have any experience with the KLANG system and app any pointers would be great.

A warmer DI should do the trick, although there's a lot that could go wrong on the way back to your monitors. Anyway, the Firefly is my go-to DI, and I like the REDDI too, but it's a 10lb beast with no signal shaping controls. And of course there are many others, I know, those are just the 2 active DI's I've chosen to keep around after owning or recording through many. The Firefly starts out warmer than your dry signal, and further allows you to tone down the harshest peaks and scrapes with the drag control. You can drive the input volume basically to the max without breakup (I suppose that depends on your bass' output, none of mine are very hot), which compresses the signal quite a bit. I rarely do that, but it's another tone at your fingertips. The HPF is also a wonderful tool to have at your control.

I can't imagine a good sound guy objecting to you using an alternative high end DI, but if they're the miserable, blindly stubborn sort, simply send them the 1/4 aux out from the Firefly, which allows either pre or post tube/filter output.

A DI will not drastically shape or boost your signal like a purpose built preamp. All the shaping I mention above is subtle, and still allows (actually helps) FOH to mix your "dry signal" properly. I record direct with headphones all the time using nothing but the Firefly 95% of the time. The REDDI is the box to use if you want to sound like 1965, which I do about 5% of the time but it does not afford any adjustment other than output level.

Unless there's another way to shape your sound inside the app, I'd say that's your best bet.

 

[MNAirHead]

Pull one in ear out, then you can hear your bass in the room with one ear and the detail in the other. I do this with crap soundguys that constantly adjust levels with gain.
Other points - sound guys typically use a dry signal because it is the default way they learned to run sound. A quality head properly eq'ed and put in the mix will sound great almost completely left alone. IMO this is a battle worth fighting.
Also, better iems sound better across the range of your instrument.
I've now gotten to the point where I only run myself through my ears. I work with one soundguy that will actually eq the monitors, the rest are just sending back the signal they get from the mics and it leaves the low end competing with the floor tom and kick which can muddy up a mix in a heartbeat. They mix this out and separate the instruments (if they are good) at foh but rarely do this for the monitors.

Respectfully,

An audiologist will punk slap you for saying this... NO - this is not good advice

Why not? Take one ear bud out of your ipod.. turn it till you can hear it with ambient sound. Then put both in your ears.

In your reply, you noted "I do this with crap soundguys that constantly adjust levels with gain"... this is a second reason why not to use this advice..

You'll notice how crazy loud you'll be turned up to give your ears the illusion of full hearing.


OPINION.. you guys need more time to dial things in with a controlled environment before going live. Worship venues notoriously pay $$$$$ for gear and 0 for staff... this may not be a good combination.

 

[dazmond]

I would get a Mesa subway DI. It's a fantastic sounding preamp in a box, with a high quality DI

 

[walterw]

Either side of "noon"!

see, i set my drive knob to about 10PM, unless it's a daytime gig in which case i set it to 10AM

 

[walterw]

Pull one in ear out, then you can hear your bass in the room with one ear and the detail in the other.

jesus christ no

A quality head properly eq'ed and put in the mix will sound great almost completely left alone. IMO this is a battle worth fighting.

but this absolutely! it's a long running topic on TB, but i totally agree. as long as "your tone" is a good one, it should never be a problem.

 

[Bourbongangster]

I played bass at a HUGE church that has a really fancy sound system. They used IEMs, and there was a Buttkicker platform where the bassist stood and they mixed in a signal from the kick drum and the bass guitar. Probably the only IEM setup that I really liked. And ever since then I've wanted to get a Buttkicker platform at home, but they are hard to find and really expensive.

 

[XLunacy]

The OmniCabSim has several inputs/outputs that I think would meet your needs.
Great little piece of gear.

 

[micguy]

I don't know why that matters, but you usually don't have that with local bands and churches (with IEM systems) as you get the FOH channels piped into the mix.
Unless you have a separate monitor mix (we do, and it's awesome), you're stuck with whatever is going into the KLANG, Aviom or Behringer sending units. I've never used the KLANG (EXPENSIVE!! system) but other than the effects and positioning capability, my understanding is KLANG still uses a sending unit like Aviom. Behringer has a sending unit, but the Ultranet capability is built into ALL their X series consoles. Unless the individual KLANG stations have EQ control on each channel (behringer's P16M's do) you get what FOH has set up for EQ and is passing into the sending unit.

My point is, if you send a signal to FOH that sounds good, what you get in your ears and what ends up in the mains will sound good, by definition.

 

[s0c9]

My point is, if you send a signal to FOH that sounds good, what you get in your ears and what ends up in the mains will sound good, by definition.

No arguments there.. The problem with that approach tho', is that what bassists "THINK" is a good tone doesn't necessarily work for FOH. Same applies (and moreso) to guitar players.
And.. it also depends on where the FOH is tapped and sent. Inserts, AUX busses and output busses can be tapped at various pre-main buss points.
ALL of that can factor into what you get in your IEM's..
I didn't even mention the "volunteer" techs who run the boards at churches.

 

[micguy]

No arguments there.. The problem with that approach tho', is that what bassists "THINK" is a good tone doesn't necessarily work for FOH. Same applies (and moreso) to guitar players.
And.. it also depends on where the FOH is tapped and sent. Inserts, AUX busses and output busses can be tapped at various pre-main buss points.
ALL of that can factor into what you get in your IEM's..
I didn't even mention the "volunteer" techs who run the boards at churches.

In my case, I'm a bassist and a FOH guy, so I have a good idea of what sound I should give to FOH.

 

[walterw]

Honestly, this is the reason I don't use IEM. I hate missing all the juiciness going on in the room from my tone......

you goal is to get yourself a signal path where that "juiciness" makes it into the DI and thus into your IEMs.

i think it's a lot easier with bass than with guitar, at least some sort of direct sound can be considered "good" on a bass where it typically just isn't with guitar.

 

[s0c9]

In my case, I'm a bassist and a FOH guy, so I have a good idea of what sound I should give to FOH.

Again, no arguments with that. Sadly, you're are in the minority with those skills!

 

[walterw]

No arguments there.. The problem with that approach tho', is that what bassists "THINK" is a good tone doesn't necessarily work for FOH. Same applies (and moreso) to guitar players.

and yet the guitar player gets his amp mic'ed and we get a fight...

ultimately i think it is the players' responsibilities to have a usable good tone to present to FOH just like it's their responsibilities to have good songs and a good stage show, and for the soundguy to forcibly substitute his choice for theirs in one area would be just as inappropriate as it would be for the others. "hey, uh, guitar player? i need you to try an Am7 chord instead, and oh yeah, lose that jacket."

 

[Afc70]

I'm using a Phil Jones bass buddy (headphone amp/ preamp) at church & Phil Jones headphones. I'm extremely happy with my sound. I have an xlr out to the board & an aux in to my bass buddy- it sounds like I'm in the studio w/ my basses- full, thick & rich sounding! Hopefully you can find a solution & improve the sound of what you are hearing.

 

[seamonkey]

Maybe just give it some time and you'll get use to it.
99% of any "break in period" for an amp is just your ears getting use to it.

 

[grapevine]

HMNN>..

IEM
Good quality IEM fit by a pro are the first step.

THEN

VOLUME
Adjust the volume on your bass.. most guys crank their bass and do not have a balanced mix.

THEN

PATIENCE
IEM is like a microscope. Chances are the band drains out much of the nastyness you're talking about. Go on Youtube and listen to isolated tracks.

Chances are your technique, settings, string choice, etc can be altered.

THEN

ONBOARD EQ
IF you continue having issues... work with the eq onbaord of your bass...


OVERALL,
Get the sound guys to let you in for a few hours to just work with it and get used to it... practice only on headphones at home.

This is good advice. I definitely need to take more time and patience to get acquainted with this set up and then I can tweak things later

Are you using a digital mixer? If so have a 2nd channel be your monitor bass signal. Just use the source input from where you regular bass channel.

I have done this for bands in the past. When mixing on an X32 and the band only had 16 channels used. Channels 17-32 were just mirrors of 1-16,that were used for FOH, but I mixed the monitors off of 17-32. Separate everything this way.

This makes sense to me. I'll have to ask them if they can spare an extra channel for bass