Amp rack help?

[The_Holy_Grail]

Hey everybody, I recently had the idea to make an amp rack since my band has started to play at bigger venues. I do have a couple of questions
1. The band and I have planned to use my two ampeg 8x10 on either side of the drum set (also thinking about buying another 4PRO.) I also thought about a wireless system. How can I set this up?
2. I use a lot of effects (EHX Small Clone/Stone , Morley Power Wah and Tech21 Overdrive. How does this affect the set-up? Would I be able to set my wah pedal out on stage? can this be done wirelessly?
3. How big does the amp rack have to be for all my equipment? 4.What do power conditioners do, any how many would I need?

Sorry guys- I've never made an amp rack before - I've only heard about them from my cousins (Who are musicians themselves) Thanks so much to anyone who can help.

 

[JimWasHere]

What's your current rig, and what's your upgrade budget? Also, what's the PA support of the places you're playing?

 

[The_Holy_Grail]

my current rig consists of an Ampeg 4PRO with two 8x10 and the effects I have already posted in my original post. I use Peavey cables to connect to my Fender P Bass, but I was thinking about with the wireless I could use 2 or 3 basses. My Budget is about $3500 , and the PA? It's large, around 1000 - 2000 people is what it's estimated for , so we haven't used much of it.

 

[Tin Cadillac]

Do you REALLY want to lug around two 8 x 10 cabinets?

Are you more concerned with projecting or maintaining an "Image" (Wall of Marshall Stacks - most not even plugged in, Etc.) or do you want to have a good sound in your given venue?

If the former, have you ever played a late night gig and then have to pack everything back up at 2 AM when you are dead tired? Do you have a road crew to do all this while you are kicking back in the tour bus getting a rub-down and whatever else from those "groupies" you told your manager to let backstage???

If the latter, there are much easier ways to accomplish this than breaking your back with all that gear! If your band has a sufficient PA (looks like you do), then you can either mike up to your cabinet or XLR out to the board and let your sound man (or the house) take care of the mix. Our band plans on doing this with everything once we get some subwoofers in place.

Regarding effects.....

If you have an "Effects Loop" (most bass amps do these days), you should use this for your wah, octaver, big muff, synth, Etc., and whatever else you got. Cable goes out to your effects and cable returns back to the amp.

The size of your rack depends upon what you decide you HAVE to have in it.

Run your wireless receiver into the standard "Input" jack you would normally plug your guitar and then "Link Up" between the transmitter on your guitar and then you can tell your friends (or your new iPhone) "Call me Rock God!"

 

[Dave W]

1. The band and I have planned to use my two ampeg 8x10 on either side of the drum set (also thinking about buying another 4PRO.) I also thought about a wireless system. How can I set this up?

To connect both cabs, you either need an amp capable of doing 2 ohms or a second amp since the cabs are 4 ohms. I don't know how you would split the wireless signal into two separate amps, I don't use one. But you know you can still use 2-3 basses without one, right?

Why do you need 2 8X10s? Are you guys playing arenas?

2. I use a lot of effects (EHX Small Clone/Stone , Morley Power Wah and Tech21 Overdrive. How does this affect the set-up? Would I be able to set my wah pedal out on stage? can this be done wirelessly?

Your effects would be set up the same exact way they are now. You plug them in to the front of the amp, or into the wireless if you happen to get one.

If you're talking about mounting the pedals in the rack, you'll need a midi switching system to control them. You'll still have a pedal out on the floor, unless you've got a bass tech that you trust enough to turn them on and off for you.

3. How big does the amp rack have to be for all my equipment?

That depends on what you get. There is no way to answer that until you know exactly what you're mounting in the rack.

4.What do power conditioners do, any how many would I need?

A legitimate power conditioner conditions power so it's always the same voltage. Some equipment can be sensitive to power spikes, so they take that out of the equation and give you constant clean power. They cost a ton of money and most people don't use them.

The "power conditioner" I'm 99.9% sure you're talking about is nothing more than a glorified power strip that has rack mount capability and possibly some lights.

How many do you need? Zero. Otherwise you would need one with enough power outlets for all of your gear. If you get one with 8 outlets, but you have 10 things to plug in...well you'd need 2 of em'

 

[JimWasHere]

Normally I wouldn't suggest using multiple cabs on opposite sides of the stage like that if you have monitor mixes being done for you, like when you go to a venue and they provide an engineer. When that is the case I would suggest making your rig as small as possible and relying on the monitors. When it isn't... That 4pro should be plenty to drive those two cabs.

For the effects, there's two options. The preferable one takes a small pile of money (less than a grand if I remember right) to purchase a midi controller and a midi controlled switching system. A good example of this is the voodoo labs ground control pro and gcx guitar switcher. You then keep all of your effects aside from your wah right there in the rack, and they just get the signal routed to the one you want to use now. It's the best for combating tone loss, and it works real well with a wireless unit because your signal literally never leaves the rack. The other option is to have your wireless with a pedalboard, and then run a cable the 30 feet to your amp... tone loss expected there. The switching system really is magic. You can even use it to control the footswitch stuff on the amp.

The wireless, don't skimp on it. if you a/b the cheap stuff with the good stuff, or better yet with a cable, you will definitely hear the difference. I really suggest securing the transmitter to your guitar strap, and then buying additional transmitters if you want to use more basses.

The power conditioner, is arguable. I use a power conditioner in my rack because it can help with dirty power... Not guaranteeing that it will though. A single 15 amp power conditioner will match the circuitry of most things you plug in to, and should be able to care for your entire rig.

As for the rack itself... 4 spaces for the amp, 1 for the wireless, 1 for the switcher, 1 for the power conditioner, maybe 1 for a tuner, and at least 1 extra for expanding later. Also, a 2 or 3 unit drawer for all you pedals, so they can stay plugged in and secure all the time. It adds up pretty quick.

Principles to keep in mind... There's a lot of unbalanced cabling in that box, so the shorter your cables are, the better. Everything has to be well secured so it doesn't get bashed and broken. I would also suggest if you're getting big enough to make this step up, you're probably on the verge of big enough to need to start thinking about DI/mic options for yourself.

Also, here's a link to a very clean rack. You probably don't need quite this much though

Link Removed


EDIT: took 20 minutes for this post to appear

 

[JimWasHere]

Do you REALLY want to lug around two 8 x 10 cabinets?

If the latter, there are much easier ways to accomplish this than breaking your back with all that gear! If your band has a sufficient PA (looks like you do), then you can either mike up to your cabinet or XLR out to the board and let your sound man (or the house) take care of the mix. Our band plans on doing this with everything once we get some subwoofers in place.

This is true.

To connect both cabs, you either need an amp capable of doing 2 ohms or a second amp since the cabs are 4 ohms.

That amp can put out stereo 4 ohms... It will work if the cabs are not daisy chained.