• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Ampeg 410 HLF midscoop

I mean, mids are basically free. What exactly are you trying to achieve that you're not reaching with full range knob adjustments on the amp? Is there an issue with just the straight bass into the cab, or only with pedals? If there's a particular range you're looking for and not getting, once you've exhausted the possibilities of the amp, you could try an outboard parametric EQ pedal (or graphic, but if you have something really specific in mind, a parametric might be better). There are loads of different ones out there. I have a Carl Martin 3 band that I really like, although I use it for guitar, not bass. 3 semi parametric bands and an overall level control. The bands cover the full musical range basically, so it should work for bass too. That's probably the easiest way if you like the overall sound of your bass, amp, and cab together and just need more of a certain range.

But I just looked up your amp to see the controls. You have 4 semi-parametric bands of EQ, PLUS high and low shelving PLUS ultra low and hi AND bright switches. So I think you need to spend some more time tweaking. Like Chris said, set everything flat on the amp, no effects, no switches engaged, and no compression. But I would go through every band of parametric eq invidividually. One or more of them should at least indicate to you what you're most looking for. Go through each band with the gain maybe halfway up (ie close to 3 o clock) and sweep the frequency up and down through the range of the knob. Make note of any frequencies that makes particularly good or bad. Then reset gain to noon, and do the same with the next band until you've gone through all 4. Do all this with the tone on your bass on full, and the attenuator on the cab at "0db". And don't be afraid to crank up the tweeter all the way up on the cab and compensate as necessary with EQ/tone controls on the amp, as they likely have different slopes and frequency centers.

If you still can't get there after that, then I suggest trying whichever EQ pedal takes your fancy. If THAT doesn't work, then yes, you probably have to change to a different cab. The GK 12 based cabs are cool, but a completely different sound. LOTS of mids, but not a ton of lows. But the mids are pretty fat and nice and the highs have a nice character to them as well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loretta
Hi there,
I searched several threads here but couldn't find an answer to my question:
After some time wasting on checking out other brands I decided to go Ampeg. Actually I'm playing a preci style bass into an Ampeg SVT 6 pro and a 410 HLF cab.
I really love this setup, we're playing some melodic punk stuff, downstrokes, mid tempo, but no hardcore. There are some pedals, all overdrive, but no high gain.
So the HLF cab gives some Oooomph! and Clank! to the sound. I also love it's sturdiness (but not the weight! ;)). The only thing I miss are some nice mids.

Does anyone know how to bring these mids to the sound? Is there a way to tune the cab (cut the tunnel f.e.) or even put different speakers in it?
Or maybe there's an alternative cab on the market with the specs above?

cheers
loretta
Plug the ports and see what you think. It seems to take the oomph off, and push a more mid forward sound most of the time. With the way that particular cab is tuned, it might not make a desirable difference. But, in my 610hlf and my K212s, it's much better. Tighter, less boomy, and has more character, but I lose some low end.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loretta
I tried a little bit of everything, and I found nothing that would get good sounding mids out of my SVT410 hlf. Just cranking up the mids on different amps I tried didn't help much. I gained mids, but not much and not good. The one thing I did that made it sound 100% better was to swap out the speakers for some old Peavy Sheffield 10s. It actually sounded decent then, but I put it back original & traded it off. They have a specific voice; some like it and some don't. I had played through EV 15s for years & I couldn't get use to the scooped mids of the 410 hlf.
 
Hi there,
I searched several threads here but couldn't find an answer to my question:
After some time wasting on checking out other brands I decided to go Ampeg. Actually I'm playing a preci style bass into an Ampeg SVT 6 pro and a 410 HLF cab.
I really love this setup, we're playing some melodic punk stuff, downstrokes, mid tempo, but no hardcore. There are some pedals, all overdrive, but no high gain.
So the HLF cab gives some Oooomph! and Clank! to the sound. I also love it's sturdiness (but not the weight! ;)). The only thing I miss are some nice mids.

Does anyone know how to bring these mids to the sound? Is there a way to tune the cab (cut the tunnel f.e.) or even put different speakers in it?
Or maybe there's an alternative cab on the market with the specs above?

cheers
loretta

You did not say which "410 HLF" cab you have, but I guess it is the SVT-410HLF? (Not PR, BSE or something else...)
I have not measured the response curve on it (one day I will), but I do not think it is very scooped in the mids. It is rather the opposite, that the lows are fairly flat and extended in it, where most bass cabs are very "frowny face", with lots of mids and little bass.

Still, the mids are a bit uneven and not as articulate as on some other cabs, and there is some resonance/coloration around 1-2kHz, I think. A bit of "bite" to the tone. Still, it has bigger frequency range and is more dynamics and "honesty" than many other cabs, that will color the sound much more.

It also takes a good amp to "keep it together" at gig levels with this cab. With my LMII, it will sound loud, deep and fat/bloated. Big bass, but a bit muddy.
With my EBS 1V2 pre into a PA amp, it will be loud, deep and clear. It is really much better with this amp.

I have not gigged with your amp, but I suggest you try a bigger amp before you give up. Maybe an Ampeg SVT 7Pro, a big Trace Elliot, RB2001 or similar? (Or do you run your amp in bridge mode already?)
Or try the pre out on your amp into a PA power amp, and see if the better output stage makes a difference.

By the way, the EBS 410 ProLine is a very different cab! It has very little real lows, will compress much earlier, has a flatter and cleaner mid range. The biggest difference is in the highs, though. EBS uses a hf horn that is MUCH better than the Foster/Fostex/P audio unit found in many bass cabs.

A great combination would be an EBS 210 or 410 ProLine plus a real sub, with active crossover and two amp channels. Too complex for most bass players, though, it seems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loretta
I toured with one, a newer heritage HLF. I was playing country with an active five string, and I wanted a fat, full sound that didn't run out of low end to fill on shorter throw stages where we needed some help between the foh speaker stacks.

I ran either an SVT CL head, or a GK MB800. I did have to work to get the mids presented, but by turning the bass all the way down and getting the midrange voiced correctly, then bringing the lows in to fatten up, not overpower the mids, I was able to get a good tone. I never played a precision through it, I'll have to do thst sometime to get an idea how it sounds, but with my active five string basses with humbuckers, or my jazz five string, I was able to get a great sound out of the cab. The thing I liked was it never seemed to run out of low end, and it was solid and reliable as a rock.

Yea - I think the Heritage 410HLF is awesome. To me, you can’t add frequencies that a cab doesn’t have, but you can cut the ones you don’t want. I like having the option of deep bass on demand. Not really needed for higher end venues with a solid PA or coffee haus gigs, but for full band backyard dance parties or smaller venues it’s great.
 
Ok, I looked at the manual for the 6 Pro a bit more just out of curiousity.

It turns out the EQ is pretty unusual, in that the frequency knobs for each EQ band also act as simultaneous Q knobs. So you have a narrow Q to the left and a wider Q to the right. So for example if you wanted a broad boost at 150, you would use the 30-150 knob (first band), and if you wanted a narrow boost at 150, you would use the 150-600 knob (second band). So it's kind of quasi fully parametric, but might take some getting used to and a lot of experimenting to get the most out of it. So if the mids you were trying to get were at say 600 Hz, you would get a much more noticeable effect with the second band than the third band set to the same frequency. Likewise, you can use either end of each band for cuts as necessary to bring out more of the frequencies you want to keep/have more of. And each knob is apparently good for 18 db of cut or boost. So I would be really surprised if you can't ultimately get what you need out of all of that with what is overall a pretty good cabinet. Honestly, the wealth of EQ options plus the tube voltage feature which sounds interesting is kind of making me want one of these amps.

On top of that, the ultra low is kind of the ampeg version of the trace pre shape. So it's like a "loudness" button that is cutting 12db of mids and boosting a couple db each of lows and highs. So definitely make sure to start with that disengaged (as well as the bright and ultra high buttons as mentioned already).
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlexanderB
You did not say which "410 HLF" cab you have, but I guess it is the SVT-410HLF?
You're right, it's the SVT. Forgot to mention this, sorry. :angel:
Ok, I looked at the manual for the 6 Pro a bit more just out of curiousity.
It's a great amp, one of the best I ever played. Out of production, unfortunately. :dead:
The EQ isn't easy, but I learned to get my tone out of it. I always leave the buttons disengaged.
I hope I use the right words - the matter is not the frequencies (alone), it's more the colour of the mids that worry me. There's no problem to be heard in the band (we're only 3 members, drumms, guitar and me), the mids just don't sound the way I want them to.
I did some tweaking but it just became worse.:(
 
You're right, it's the SVT. Forgot to mention this, sorry. :angel:

It's a great amp, one of the best I ever played. Out of production, unfortunately. :dead:
The EQ isn't easy, but I learned to get my tone out of it. I always leave the buttons disengaged.
I hope I use the right words - the matter is not the frequencies (alone), it's more the colour of the mids that worry me. There's no problem to be heard in the band (we're only 3 members, drumms, guitar and me), the mids just don't sound the way I want them to.
I did some tweaking but it just became worse.:(

Aha! I see.
Again, if you really want a fairly flat and accurate reproduction of the bass, a "mini PA" is great.
Something like the EBS 212 NeoLine and a PA subwoofer crossed over at 80Hz (12 or more dB/octave) will be very nice.
Then you can bring the 212 alone for smalller gigs.

The 210 ProLine is also a good option.

An active 18"/1kW sub will be a good match.

A rig like that will beat the snot out of any cab based on the Kappalite 3015LF - been there, done that.

The point of taking full advantage of a rig like that is to replicate a PA, which means large low/mid drivers and crossing over at 70-100 Hz.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Loretta
Step by step:
  1. Tweak the amp / use the EQ
  2. Try a pedal EQ
  3. Get a different cab
But I'm not far away from my "drean sound", the SVT 410 HLF is a great cab! Some love it and others hate it, I know this. I can understand both sides.

What makes this one so unique? Is it the speakers? The inside volume? The BR tunnels?
Does anyone know?
 
Step by step:
  1. Tweak the amp / use the EQ
  2. Try a pedal EQ
  3. Get a different cab
But I'm not far away from my "drean sound", the SVT 410 HLF is a great cab! Some love it and others hate it, I know this. I can understand both sides.

What makes this one so unique? Is it the speakers? The inside volume? The BR tunnels?
Does anyone know?
All of the above.
 
Raising the cab up is not a bad idea. But what drummer uses a flight case for their cymbals? Usually they use bags that would just be a lump under a cab, or the molded cases that seem like they would comfortably support maybe about 30 or 40 pounds before breaking. But the trick would be finding some sort of solid, sturdy platform big enough for the HLF to sit on and stay put. A little guitar combo amp stand might not be up to it. An actual road case would probably work though.
 
Okay, Jimmy. Now please go and tell Ampeg about my problem and they should make a cab with the specs above. I know I'm not alone.
o_O;)
The redesign from a few years ago addressed those issues for most people. But cab design is a series of tradeoffs and compromises, and there's only so much that can be done before you reach a tipping point. I'm sure they would have done it if not for those issues with that pesky physics getting in the way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loretta
"I'm sure there will be some news in near by future."

Waiting-Memes-52918-aad4877.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: Loretta
Back from the grave...

Finally I traded the SVT 410 HLF years ago. Same with the Ampeg SVt-6 pro - this one was too heavy for me to carry around and it offered too much power. Went through many amps but couldn't get happy until I remembered an old love of mine and purchased a Peavey T-Max. I love this amp!
Played through EV 15L speakers the last couple of months and was satisfied. Got that aggressive and room-filling sound.

Then we had a show in a place I was in not long before and I knew they had a backline to be used by all bands, so I was a bit lazy and just took my back-up amp (Markbass LM II) with me.
On stage there was a different backline than before with an amp I didn't like so I chose the MB.
The cab was an Ampeg PF-410 HLF.
I had my pedalbord and plugged my bass in and was shocked - this cab was so great! I couldn't believe it. It was like the SVT 410 HLF with the growl and the ooomph! but without the scoop.
***???

I should've bought this one right away, but it belonged to the club. And I was confused.

Now I want one of those. Or maybe a PF-210 or a 115 or a 112 HLF?
Question is if these smaller cabs got the same growl/ooomph/tone like the 410?
We often play small/tiny clubs/pubs where we are told not to play too loud, so weight and space are an issue.

And after all I don't know if the evening with the PF-410HLF was just so good because of the room/temperature/my playing (:D).
Can't get it out of my head.

I'm convinced the cabs have a very huge influence on the sound.
HLF cabs seem to be very special.
Shall I go for the 410 or a smaller one? Will they do the job as good?

What do you think?
Talk me in or talk me out of it!


cheers