Ampeg B2RE or SVT3Pro?

[ThePaleHorse]

Im in a loud metal band and both of my guitarists play extremely loud, which is to be expected. For the most part I can be heard fairly well, but I just dont seem to have the volume presense that I truly am after. It's really close, but not quite. I just wish I had a bit more headroom.

My current set-up is an Ampeg B2RE through an SVT 410HLF cabinet. I truly love the ampeg tone, and am pretty satisfied with my sound, however my issue is the Limit LED prevents me from taking the B2RE past about half its power. Is this because the cabinet cant quite handle it? I dont think thats the case, but am not sure. It sounds amazing...just not quite loud enough.

My question is... do i upgrade to an SVT810 cabinet (which i was comtemplating just for the ballsyness of the massive fridge behind me) or is it worth the money to maybe go for the SVT 3 pro amp instead? Which i hear is about the same volume-wise (450 watts) but with a lot more tone possibilities? Is the SVT 3 pro genuinely better(and significantly louder) than the B2RE?

 

[Hoss]

The change from the 410 HLF to the 810 will make a noticeable increase in Volume. Its the double of membran surface and 98dB with the HLF versus 100dB with the Fridge.

Also the sound will differ after the swap. The Fridge sounds tighter and more focused were the HLF is rather on the boomy, loose side. Closed design vs. Bass Reflex.

IMHO changing the cab will make more diff than changing the amp. The power stages of those two amps are rated the same power - 450 Watts at 4 Ohm. Maybe the power stage is even identical? It says "Mosfet" with the B2RE and "Solid State" with the SVT-3.

I think the sound of the SVT-3 will be more on the warmer, more detailed side as the preamp is tube designed. I dont think its louder than the B2RE - Thats more a question of how you set the tone controls...

PS: Some here on TB will rather recommend you the Bergantino 610 over the Ampeg 810. I have no experience with that cab.

 

[ThePaleHorse]

Thanks for the info, i was definitely leaning in that direction. It seems more logical, and I could always get a tube preamp in the future if i really want the extra tone.

 

[palmann]

I tried both amps in our rehearsal room. I finally bought the B2-RE, because in my opinion it doesn't make any difference practically, whether you take the B2-RE or the SVT3-Pro. Even if I liked the sound of the SVT3-Pro a little better, I decided to go with the solid state amp, because it was about only 60% of the SVTs price.

With both amps I had the feeling, that I could use a little more headroom but actually I've never been in a situation where it's been not loud enough.

I use a 4x12er in our rehearsal room (8 Ohm) and a 2x15er (4 Ohm) at live shows.

Gruesse, Pablo

 

[realdeal]

These players gave good answers.
I've used both the B2RE and presently one of my rigs uses a 3-PRO.

My music is a bit less...."agressive" than yours (R&B, old-Funk, Hey- it's all Rock n' Roll! ...except of course when it's jazz! )

Anyway- you won't get bigger volume between amps- You'll get different tone.
For you, the SS attack of the B2RE might be the better tone actually.

The 3-PRO has a warmth from the tube path that adds depth and coloration to the tone- Not particularly volume or headroom.
The other advantage is a very effective tube gain control which along with the gain and master lets you dial in a nice range of tube growl and color.

I was very impresed when I played the B2- It had a great range of tone, it could get nice and phat as well as produce a sharp attack that would..... ummmm.... RAWK... I guess I'd say. All this for under $500--- One of the best buys around I think.


The comments concerning the enclosures were very well-put.
That's probably your best bet, other than to upgrade to one of the more powerful "B" series heads.

 

[mophead]

I have the older B2R and find it to be excellent. I did try a 3 Pro and found it had no balls. There are threads about this and perhaps I had one that the bias was out of whack, but it could not hang with the B2R. One thing that will help on the B2R is to run two 8 ohm cabinets that will let the amp deliver all its power.

I am pretty much Ampeg all the way so I feel my comments about the 3 Pro to be from use and not what someone else says. I have tried them in many GC's around the country and they just don't get as loud as the B2RE.
Now having said that, I play through a V4B (Magnavox era) during full band practice and at gigs. I can't imagine needing more amp than that. It is much louder than the SS amps and you can go out the back to a board if necessary for playing larger venues. It cuts through the mix better than the B2R.

I normally use the B2R for studio practice and the v4B for gigs. We use the B2R to power a keyboard through a 210 cab with horn and older V4B cab. Our keyboard player loves this setup and can be heard!

I much prefer the Ampeg B series amps to the Pro Series. If you want SS tone, go with the B series. If you want tube tone, get a tube amp. Period. For myself, the hybrids just miss the mark on both counts.

This info and $7 will get you a latte at Starbucks, so consider what you paid for it.

 

[Baird6869]

I spent a couple hours comparing a SVT3Pro and B2RE and couldn't justify the extra $$$ for the SVT and bought the B2RE.

I initially bought an Ampeg 2x10 to run with the B2RE but it wasn't loud enough and it started clipping at about 5 on the volume knob. I added a 1x15 Ampeg cab and the problem is solved.

Why not try a 1x15 with the HLF and see if that helps?

I used to play the Ampeg 8x10 years ago but the friggin' thing is so big and heavy!

 

[Johnny5]

+1 on adding a 1x15 cab - if the HLF wasn't a 4 ohm cab already. But it is, so you'll be losing power.
I have a 3-Pro and I like it, and would recommend it. But based on what you need, I'd say spring for the fridge.

 

[realdeal]

I have the older B2R and find it to be excellent. I did try a 3 Pro and found it had no balls. There are threads about this and perhaps I had one that the bias was out of whack, but it could not hang with the B2R. One thing that will help on the B2R is to run two 8 ohm cabinets that will let the amp deliver all its power.

I am pretty much Ampeg all the way so I feel my comments about the 3 Pro to be from use and not what someone else says. I have tried them in many GC's around the country and they just don't get as loud as the B2RE.
Now having said that, I play through a V4B (Magnavox era) during full band practice and at gigs. I can't imagine needing more amp than that. It is much louder than the SS amps and you can go out the back to a board if necessary for playing larger venues. It cuts through the mix better than the B2R.

I normally use the B2R for studio practice and the v4B for gigs. We use the B2R to power a keyboard through a 210 cab with horn and older V4B cab. Our keyboard player loves this setup and can be heard!

I much prefer the Ampeg B series amps to the Pro Series. If you want SS tone, go with the B series. If you want tube tone, get a tube amp. Period. For myself, the hybrids just miss the mark on both counts.

This info and $7 will get you a latte at Starbucks, so consider what you paid for it.

I'll have the grande latte, please.

Hate to argue with a fellow Ampeg lover, let alone someone who loves the V4 almost as much as I do!

But!

I can't go along with the volume issue. I used a B2RE for 2 weeks- on the job. Medium rooms,no FOH. Plenty Loud, great amps great Ampeg tone. They work.
Oh- a sidebar please....
After the 3rd night playing (this rig was AT the club, it wasn't mine)
after loving and respecting the B2RE- I noticed "Made in China" by accident if you will.
My point- for those who have issues with the overseas manufacture,
politics aside Get over it. tThis head PERFORMS on the highest Pro level.
Period. Let's not go there.


OK-Back to Work- I added a 3-PRO to my Ampeg array- SVTE, SVT-48HE (I'm lucky to have one of these) and my totally rad V4BH, which has seen more gig miles in reverse than most playahs will see going forward...
I love the 3-PRO and volume is no issue. Both stand-alone and FOH supported it rules. Matter of fact one of the cleanest DI's made.
On it's own- Granted my musical projects are not of the "drown out 747" type- Little more in=the-pocket, but we do not lay back, and my rhythm sections are pretty tuff and I play some places where we make many asses shake and booties quake from the gain.

NEVER had I ahd an issue with voluem- Hey, maybe I'm lucky got a good one, I dunno.
I think it's a given that you need to run at 4 Ohms to get the most out of AMpeg or any head for that matter. And altho Iam luvin' my Classic series cab, I betcha the Pro-series or teh B series would sound awesome through the higher-end more efficient cabs- Say Bergantino or Epi. I have a M-Line Wizzy for a micro-rig, and Wow- I would think the larger EA 2x10 or 4x10 would be superb with an Ampeg.

Mophead no disrespect-Never to an AMpeg user! But GC does not give a real-world sample of volume, headroom, and laying right in the mix.
If the B2RE is your 'grail, cool, it IS a great unit that I feel can hang with most of the high-end boutique SS heads, but I am going to prop the PRO series. They are a superb piece of gear in my mind.

 

[ThePaleHorse]

Thanks for all the input! From all the responses it seems like the SVT3Pro just isnt for me.

However, cab wise, would two 8ohm 410 cabinets(or a 410 & 115) be the equivalent to the power/volume of my 4ohm 410HLF and perhaps be a better fit for the B2RE? Or would they be more like having a SVT810? I've actually been wondering about the science behind this for a while, because technically it would be a 4ohm load. Also, moving two cabs would be a bit easier to transport than an 810, but not worth it if its not really an upgrade from my 410HLF. But if it comes down to it we are all strapping young lads, so im pretty sure my band could handle transporting an 810 anyway.

 

[mophead]

I'll have the grande latte, please.

Hate to argue with a fellow Ampeg lover, let alone someone who loves the V4 almost as much as I do!

But!

I can't go along with the volume issue. I used a B2RE for 2 weeks- on the job. Medium rooms,no FOH. Plenty Loud, great amps great Ampeg tone. They work.
Oh- a sidebar please....
After the 3rd night playing (this rig was AT the club, it wasn't mine)
after loving and respecting the B2RE- I noticed "Made in China" by accident if you will.
My point- for those who have issues with the overseas manufacture,
politics aside Get over it. tThis head PERFORMS on the highest Pro level.
Period. Let's not go there.


OK-Back to Work- I added a 3-PRO to my Ampeg array- SVTE, SVT-48HE (I'm lucky to have one of these) and my totally rad V4BH, which has seen more gig miles in reverse than most playahs will see going forward...
I love the 3-PRO and volume is no issue. Both stand-alone and FOH supported it rules. Matter of fact one of the cleanest DI's made.
On it's own- Granted my musical projects are not of the "drown out 747" type- Little more in=the-pocket, but we do not lay back, and my rhythm sections are pretty tuff and I play some places where we make many asses shake and booties quake from the gain.

NEVER had I ahd an issue with voluem- Hey, maybe I'm lucky got a good one, I dunno.
I think it's a given that you need to run at 4 Ohms to get the most out of AMpeg or any head for that matter. And altho Iam luvin' my Classic series cab, I betcha the Pro-series or teh B series would sound awesome through the higher-end more efficient cabs- Say Bergantino or Epi. I have a M-Line Wizzy for a micro-rig, and Wow- I would think the larger EA 2x10 or 4x10 would be superb with an Ampeg.

Mophead no disrespect-Never to an AMpeg user! But GC does not give a real-world sample of volume, headroom, and laying right in the mix.
If the B2RE is your 'grail, cool, it IS a great unit that I feel can hang with most of the high-end boutique SS heads, but I am going to prop the PRO series. They are a superb piece of gear in my mind.

You are correct about GC being a terrible place to listen and get a feel for anything. I had to have had one of the bias challenged 3 Pro's. I did retube, but there is no one in my area that can even spell hybrid amp, so I finally gave it up.

One more thing I should have added, my B2R is prone to fry the fan on a fairly regular basis, say every year or so. I have seen threads about this, so when you are playing along and it quits, then returns for a while, it is probably the cooling fan. You can stock up on them from Digi-Key for about 4 for a minimum order and have them ready to go. Hopefully this has been addressed by the new E series.

I just can't get away from the V4B and how it sounds. I have pretty much quit looking for anything else, just need a backup to it and all will be well.

 

[realdeal]

If your 3Pro had a problem with the preamp or driver tubes, it would definitely affect the volme and headroom-
Too bad there wasn't a good tech to look at it in your 'hood-
Might have made a major difference.
,
At any rate, As far as I could tell working the B2RE hard pushing it at about 2 O'Clock Gain and maybe 12 on Master, it never ruffled it, and truthfully, I thought the fan was quieter on it than it is on my 3PRO.
Hopefully they have it licked if it was an issue with earlier models

But there ain't no fans on our V4BH's! Yeah, let those tubes GLOW, baby! And the hotter the better. I find that as the night wears on, and the room and the gig and the amp all heat up, the tone is sweeter, and phatter, and has a rigid attack that cannot be replicated by anything- even the SVT's have a "beefier" voice, while the V's quartet of 6l6GC's keeps a solid sweet spot of bass definition.
I'll never get rid of mine, and I know it is gonna see a lot of action-always.
I've been posting that for those thinking about one- The time is now!
It's one very special amp. Don't think I've heard many people who were not impressed.

 

[scarekrow]

New amp AND cab!

 

[savit260]

I've played a few shows with a 3 Pro, and many, many shows with a B2RE. I was so impressed with a show I played a B2RE on, that I went out and bought one. For practical purposes, the B2RE suits me better. I didin't notice enough of a difference in tone between the two to justify the price difference. I do use a "Timmy Overdrive" pedal in front of the B2RE to give it just a little more kick in the pants.

I normaly play it through a 2X10 SVT PRO w/ 150 Watt Celestions in it, on it's side, and it works quite well. I've used 6X10's a couple of times, and the big 8X10 Fridge on a few occations. The big fridge will definitly do the trick for you. If you don't feel like lugging around a cab that big, addinig a 1X15 or another 4X10 would do the trick too. Just make sure you're not running it below 4 ohms.

The B2RE with an 8X10 is a great combination.

 

[brotherdave]

I have owned several different Ampeg heads. I currently use a B2RE. Mine is the older USA B2RE. I compared it to the SVT3 before I bought it and if I was playing jazz I'd probably want the SVT3. But I'm not. I'm in a geezer band playing R&B oldies and the two guitarists both are using tube combos that do about 50 watts. Everything is miked anyway and I run a direct line to the PA from the B2RE. The sound guy is always telling me I'm too loud.

Frankly if I was 30 years younger and in a real hard rock situation or was doing a tour, I'd be using the SVT6. The B2RE is possibly a bit underpowered for the situation you are in.

To answer your question about cabs, you can use any two 8-ohm cabs you want. I use an Avatar 1x15 Neo and an Avatar 2x10 Delta. Look at the Avatar cabs at Avatarcabs.com and also look at the Dr. Bass cabs at drbasscabs.com .

The Dr. Bass cabs have really caught on in the Carolinas where I live. When my Avatar 1x15 wears out I'll get a Dr. Bass stack since Avatar doesn't make 15 inch cabs anymore while Dr. Bass still does. Stacking two 8-ohm 4x10 cabs makes more sense to me than using one huge cab. For small gigs you'd only need one cab. I use the Avatar 2x10 with an old 100 watt Peavey head for rehearsals and leave the Ampeg rack at home.

Nothing against the Ampeg 8x10 but stacking two 8-Ohm cabs will work too.

 

[El Sambo]

Hey PaleHorse, I use the B2R in my rig. I feel no major blind loyalty to Ampeg but its a Bass amp and does what it should well. The DI is fantastic for recording and FOH supported gigs. I recently had another thread on here dealing with a similar issue ie not enough volume. The concensus was had a second box, or look at the efficiency of the box, something like 95-98db@1w/1m. I looked at the Schroeder 21012 box which has an efficiency of 103-104db@1W/1m and that is reputedly, quite loud. Big things come in small packages. The fix to my woes though will be a 1x15, for now is a little more affordable.

 

[Lync]

I think I recall the Ampeg rep here (Jerrold) saying that you could also get more volume if you turned the limiter off (at the expense of messing things up if you don't use your head).