ampeg comments

[autopilot!]

hi, i'm new here, but also hadn't seen this discussed which is my reason for joining. i don't want this to become a debate about overseas vs. not-overseas ampeg production. these are more comments about the gear itself and value.

having recently switched back from guitar to bass, i started looking for a serious bass rig along the lines of the svt-vr head. and i began doing research when i heard there was a shake up in st. louis.

i recently was at a guitar center where they had a new vietnam cabinet & the old usa cabinets.

the vietnam cabinets appear to have thinner wood than the usa cab construction. can't really comment on whether the sound quality would be any different. it's just an observation as i didn't play an amp that day. i was surprised no one on this board had mentioned this. even the sales associate could tell the difference, and had also commented that she did not feel the new cabinets sounded the same. she felt the thinner construction didn't resonate as well. we were specifically looking at the SVT-410HLF.

i was really surprised by this because i thought from reading online and talking with dealers that the parts/specs weren't supposed to change when they moved production, but this minor visual change to the cabinet reduces my comfort level a bit. i am surprised a tuned cabinet doesn't have a change in specs when the materials have changed. also, from an economics standpoint, the thinner material is probably lighter to ship overseas, possibly answering questions as to how they can afford to ship them. if they thinned out the viet cab, what did they do to the vr head?

i also wanted to comment that when i buy equipment, i often consider the future potential resale value of that equipment in the event that i have to sell the gear. we all hope this doesn't happen when we make an investment, but it does sometimes factor in as our situation or tastes evolve. many times resale values can be enhanced by "perceived value." whether quality is constant or not, perceived value may make one piece of equipment more desirable over another, driving a higher price for some buyers & sellers. on an ampeg svt-vr head, the made in usa stamp can potentially have that affect in the future as they become less available.

in the end, i'm not trying to stir the pot, but just expressing a few more points i hadn't seen in previous posts. i would be curious if anyone else has noticed the thinner wood construction of the new cabs. has anyone compared a usa v viet amp at all? i realize it's difficult to do unless you are a dealer or have access to both at the same time.

-r.
p.s. i ended up buying a used usa svt-410hlf cabinet. the search is now on for that usa vr head.

 

[DeepBass9]

didn't we already ride this merry-go-round?

 

[autopilot!]

no offense, don't reply if your response is like the one above.

to deepbass9 specifically, 1) send me the post where cabinet construction was discussed! 2) send me the post where someone actually compared 2 vr heads. that would be more helpful than what you did post.

i posted this in case 6-9 months has revealed any new experiences.

 

[Masher88]

The parts and such (from what I gather from the NUMEROUS posts on this subject) were pretty much all coming out of Asia for that last few years anyways, so it was a no brainer to move production to Vietnam. As far as anyone knows...the amps look, are constructed and perform the same as the USA ones.

The problem lies in the service for the amps. Many people have stated long waits and unsatisfactory service when trying to get something fixed due to a delay in shipping replacement parts.

Undoubtedly, the USA stamped Ampeg gear will fetch a higher price in resale than a Vietnam one. That's just the way it goes! If you are shopping for gear with resale in mind, you may want to search for a NOS or something used on the Ebay.

PS...the poster before was just trying to re-itterate that one should use the search function. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.

 

[srxplayer]

I would like to add something to what Masher88 said. Everything about the internals all comming from Asia are true. The local techs that worked on my amp said the same thing to me.

I have a pre-Vietnam built Ampeg combo, a BA115HP that was built in St. Louis around August of 2005. Its build quality and performance hasn't been steller. So the QC I believe has been going down hill for a while. I have had the compression driver fail as well as the L-Pad on the rear of the cab go bad. Geting warranty service was a pain, and the service network Ampeg had in amy area was horrible. It took more than 6 months and two different warranty locations to get it fixed.

So just because you can find a US built Ampeg doesn't mean it's going to be better. Unless you get a vintage Ampeg or at least one that older than a 2005 model. I wouldn't expect anything better.

 

[autopilot!]

hey, i realize the ampeg thing has been hashed over in many other threads. but the "NUMEROUS" posts already on the subject seemed mostly about people whining about economics & politics, not the actual product being sold or an actual real comparison. SO, you may consider the following statement as an FYI then...

my post is about an actual observation of the product that is at GC right now. the VIET SVT-HLF cab uses thinner wood for the cabinet construction than the previous USA SVT-HLF cab. it's a FACT.

(show me the thread where it was discussed and i will apologize vehemently for my oversight.)

the rest of my post was just ancillary thoughts. have a nice day.

 

[fenderhutz]

The problem is the water has been heavily tread on this subject. We have all noticed that have played the new gear the knobs feel different, there are differences in sound, quality of tolex (fit and finish).

There is a quality difference and according to the mods that CAN be discussed on here, unfortunately someone ALWAYS comes along and makes it a political issue.

Does it look like some corners were cut, yes, but according to a former Ampeg employee that posts on here it's because details get literally lost in translation.

The horse has been beaten to death on this, that's all. We have addressed your concerns in some threads and I don't have the energy or time to search through all 13 pages to find the right posts.

 

[DeepBass9]

The problem is the water has been heavily tread on this subject. We have all noticed that have played the new gear the knobs feel different, there are differences in sound, quality of tolex (fit and finish).

There is a quality difference and according to the mods that CAN be discussed on here, unfortunately someone ALWAYS comes along and makes it a political issue.

Does it look like some corners were cut, yes, but according to a former Ampeg employee that posts on here it's because details get literally lost in translation.

The horse has been beaten to death on this, that's all. We have addressed your concerns in some threads and I don't have the energy or time to search through all 13 pages to find the right posts.

word

 

[Kelly Lee]

The problem is the water has been heavily tread on this subject. We have all noticed that have played the new gear the knobs feel different, there are differences in sound, quality of tolex (fit and finish).

There is a quality difference and according to the mods that CAN be discussed on here, unfortunately someone ALWAYS comes along and makes it a political issue.

Does it look like some corners were cut, yes, but according to a former Ampeg employee that posts on here it's because details get literally lost in translation.

The horse has been beaten to death on this, that's all. We have addressed your concerns in some threads and I don't have the energy or time to search through all 13 pages to find the right posts.

Since you already got a +1 I'll give you a huge +2!

autopilot!, there are posts noting the quality/fit/finish/etc of the newer Ampegs compared to the old. If you take the time to search those threads you will find the info your asking for.

Anyways...I'll leave this thread open as long as it stays within the posting rules that have already been established.

 

[Jerrold Tiers]

The parts and such (from what I gather from the NUMEROUS posts on this subject) were pretty much all coming out of Asia for that last few years anyways, so it was a no brainer to move production to Vietnam.

Actually, that is no more true of Ampeg than anyone else..... And less than many.

I have mentioned in other places the numerous important parts which were retained in the US, including such things as SVT output transformers, the entire chassis (metal parts), etc.

Many parts were "internationally sourced".... but that isn't necessarily asia. Most non-electrolytic capacitors in tube units came from europe, Wima, Evox, Roederstein, etc, for instance.

yes, a number of parts WERE asian in origin. But as I have mentioned, by no means were there asian manufacturers for every part, who just stuck a new address on the boxes, as seems to be implied by your statement.

Now, "asian" does not necessarily mean trash, bad, or even not as good. However, I do know that intensive efforts were made in the last few months of Ampeg Engineering US, to (at the request of management) find "equivalent" asian sources for every US or european part. (And, of course, the very existence of this process indicates that the parts were not sourced "over there" to begin with)

In many cases, the results of that search were not the best.... possibly due to price pressures, or possibly due to a simple communication problem. Specs on some of the asian parts were hard to find, and the "equivalence" was dubious. Communication through asian agents (who in many cases had a vested interest in stalling) was poor. I don't expect that got better once there was no more engineering group to oversee the process.

And, due to the intensive training that US customers have given to asian vendors (cheaper is better, and low price is a substitute for quality), it is often difficult to get a contract manufacturer to believe you really want quality. They tend to shave pennies, and think they are helping you.

It would be possible to get products of equal quality from asia. Unfortunately, from what I have experienced, I am not hopeful that such as result is actually happening, even IF some folks give it an honest try. it takes a LOT of effort and constant monitoring.

I didnt see that.

 

[jellymax]

 

[bloodyjack]

Not only did they move production overseas they fired all the engineers and farm design overseas as well ofcourse they are not going to tell the public that!

 

[Baird6869]

Who cares?

There is so much USA made Ampeg out there in the market that there is no real reason to b!tch about Ampeg production moving overseas (yet anyways).

I love Ampeg Cabs and stocked up by buying 3 MIA cabs (two 2x10 and a 1x15). These can be found on eBay, Cragslist or wherever in mint condition for $250-300. Same with the heads. Tons of supply new and used.

I will likely join the people b!tching about this in a couple of years down the road but I am set for now.

 

[ducknturtle]

There is only one possible reason why Ampeg moved production overseas, and that's to lower production costs. It doesn't necessarily mean that quality will decline, but it tells me that their mindset is geared towards building as cheaply as possible rather than the best. I think the long term prospects of the company are looking pretty poor, and it's also sad that one of the great American music companies is now no more.

 

[leelove]

Bought an ampeg BRe i month ago...One showed up and was totally dead. Got a replacement and gigged it first time friday night and again saturday...half way through saturdays gigs amp starts 'farting' everywhere and then cab (B115E) dies on me... I know its not the top end stuff buts that just shocking. Am now in process of getting stuff all returned to the dealer and thinking what else i can buy in the same mid range... When the head (briefly) worked it did sound great...and somehow did kinda have that 'ampeg' tone.... I spoke to the guy in the shop here in the UK and he said thay were currently getting 3 outta 5 ampeg heads back. Sound like RIp new ampeg to me....
so, anyone got any suggestions what i should get ....please... reliable? full bodied? please dont say ashdown ive been throught their heads of late too any were never outta repaid... sorry if i sound p'ed off but i am! x

 

[Williamsburgjim]

I've been following this saga/drama for almost a year now and yes, I am personally sad to see quality control decline (from what I've been reading). I have never posted because I believe in trying to make a buck but after talking with many store owners, musicians, sales clerks, etc. there is QC scuttlebutt going around that may tarnish the company name.

As a proud owner of Ampeg products, the only hope I have is that there can be some turn-around, regardless of where it's designed/built. Based upon the history of company buy-outs [see Ampeg Story Behind the Sound] it may be at some point after sales decline, once again design and/or production will return... .

One burning question that may/may not have been asked: Has anyone at the 'higher level' ever asked the question about keeping the company design and/or production here and yes, raising the price of the product??? Jerrold, any speculation on that? I mean, we all know you get what you pay for, and there are those willing to pay higher prices for quality products. (Keeping the price the same and lowering QC I'm sure, was not the intent.)


Sincerely,

Jimmyjo

 

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Re the cab being thinner.

The 810s have been made of chipboard for a while, they were originally ply (i think), and then changed to chipboard in either the late 80s or the early/mid 90s.

Just before ampeg production was moved abroad, they switched back to ply for the cabs.

Im not sure what they are using now. But either way, it could explain the differences in wood thickness.

I dont think the problem is the thinner construction not resonating as well, i think its that you generally want the cabinet to resonate as little as possible! (not a problem with the Marshall vbc810 i might add, which is helluva thick wood!)

I dont know the exacts, but it just seems like a plausible explaination of the differences in wood thickness

 

[ducknturtle]

Ampeg has put themselves into a bind I'm not sure they can resolve. "Made in America" is worth something in the marketplace, just ask Fender who are able to charge hundreds of dollars more for MIA guitars. An SVT made in Vietnam will sell at some price, but not the same $1600. price as the now discontinued made in America models. I doubt the lower cost of production they have gained in Vietnam will balance the hit their repution is taking now, especially in the new era of the lower dollar. I plan to keep playing my SVT and B15 till I die.