Ampeg dissatisfaction

[Caleb Mills]

Alright, so I'm on a thread posting tear today because I just discovered how to post new threads!

So, right now, I'm playing either my Fender MIA Jazz bass, or a Fender MIM P bass with Duncan 1/4 pounder pickups into an Ampeg SVT-3 Pro and an Ampeg 8x10 cab. Honestly, I'm really just not impressed.

I've read a lot of threads on here about the SVT-3 Pro's lack of volume/power, but it's not really the volume that I'm dissatisfied with. I've tried just about every tone setting I can think of, but nothing really seems to give me that "oh, yeah" sound. Is this because the SVT-3 Pro just isn't "my" amp?

Sometimes I feel like maybe it's the cab, but then again, it's a 8x10 cab... which is like, the holy grail of bass cabs. Plus it looks awesome sitting up on stage towering over everyone else's gear. =P

I used to own this little Ampeg combo amp. It was a 115 of some sort, and even it used to rattle my pants off. Heck, I even used to play on an old old old Peavey 115 combo, and it would give me a headache from how much awesome low end I could get. Ever since I switched to this "professional" stack, it haven't been able to get back that chest thumping sound.

after doing my own research and spending hours here on TB, I think it's either the SVT-3 Pro that just isn't cutting it, or it's the cab. Maybe I need to put together a 4x10 cab on top of a 115 cab stack?

I play worship music at my church, and I play out in indie/alternative rock, and punk rock bands. Totally open to any EQ suggestions, gear suggestions, whatever. Just help get that "yeah" sound. Keep in mind that I'm getting married in 3 months, so I really can't afford ridiculously priced boutique amps and cabs. Thanks, dudes!

 

[High Camp]

If you want looowwwww-end I hear people saying: SVT 410HLF.

 

[JimmyM]

Well since you like my advice so much... I'll hit you with a couple things you might want to consider before giving up on the 3 Pro...

1. How long have the tubes you're using been in it? If it's been a few years, might want to have them tested, or try some swapping out of different tubes, especially the first preamp tube. Might be the tube you really don't like. Ampeg ships them with bottom-of-the-line Sovteks in them, and they're not bad tubes really, but you might like the character of something else.

2. There are some 810e's I'm not fond of. These would be the ones made from 2000-06. They are considerably darker and muddier than 810e speakers before or after. You might want to check this page and date your 810e.

3. Forget the 410/115 rig. One of the very worst cabinets I ever tried was the long-discontinued Ampeg SVT 1540, which was essentially a 410he on top of a 115e. Separately each cab sounds amazing. Together...blech!

4. What ARE you looking for? More low end? Yeah, a 410hlf might be more up your alley, or one of the Portaflex cabs, maybe the PF410hlf if you need high volume. Probably wouldn't recommend the PF210he to you, but the other three do have some crazy low end going on.

 

[Dave W]

Do you have any examples of the sound you're looking for?

 

[Bass_Pounder]

. Maybe I need to put together a 4x10 cab on top of a 115 cab stack?

No...............Just NO !!

 

[B-string]

How new/old is your 3-Pro, last time it was serviced?
Was the cab brand new or a used cab of unknown year/condition/modification?

 

[Caleb Mills]

Well since you like my advice so much... I'll hit you with a couple things you might want to consider before giving up on the 3 Pro...

1. How long have the tubes you're using been in it? If it's been a few years, might want to have them tested, or try some swapping out of different tubes, especially the first preamp tube. Might be the tube you really don't like. Ampeg ships them with bottom-of-the-line Sovteks in them, and they're not bad tubes really, but you might like the character of something else.

2. There are some 810e's I'm not fond of. These would be the ones made from 2000-06. They are considerably darker and muddier than 810e speakers before or after. You might want to check this page and date your 810e.

3. Forget the 410/115 rig. One of the very worst cabinets I ever tried was the long-discontinued Ampeg SVT 1540, which was essentially a 410he on top of a 115e. Separately each cab sounds amazing. Together...blech!

4. What ARE you looking for? More low end? Yeah, a 410hlf might be more up your alley, or one of the Portaflex cabs, maybe the PF410hlf if you need high volume. Probably wouldn't recommend the PF210he to you, but the other three do have some crazy low end going on.

I bought both the head and the cab used at a local SamAsh store. I haven't done anything to either of them, so there's a good chance that the head needs to be serviced. Especially the tubes. I'll date my cab and get back to you.

Good advice on the 410/115 stack idea. I've never heard both together, so I was just assuming that it might be decent.

Yeah, I'm looking for a lot of big, wide low end, but I don't want to get muddy and undefined. Like I said, I play worship music at church, and in indie/alternative bands, and a punk band, so I'm using it for a lot of different styles (although modern worship and alt/rock are basically the same). As a bassist in a 3-piece, I really need to be able to occupy a lot on sonic space, especially when the guitarist drops out for solos. I've read several threads on that exact topic here on TB.

Like I said earlier, I really loved the kind of low end that used to make my face tingle when I played on those 115 combo amps. Maybe I should go back to playing combos?

Do you have any examples of the sound you're looking for?

Well, for starters, I've always been an enormous fan of Tokyo Police Clubs bass tone, although I wouldn't always want that SVT all-tube over driven tone for everything. I think what I always gravitate toward is the really big, smooth, low end bass tones that you hear in most modern alternative bands. I've never been a huge fan of the vintage, "woody" bass tones. While I don't want to sacrifice clarity, keep in mind that I don't slap a whole lot. I do when necessary, but it's not like I need to have an abundance of high-mids and highs to get those super clear slap and pop tones.

Examples:

Tokyo Police Club
Angels and Airwaves
Magic Man
Bleachers
Literally any Hillsong/Hillsong United since the Aftermath album
Cage The Elephant

A really really good example of what I'm looking for is Magic by Coldplay. It's got really full, big, bassy low end, but you can still really hear what's going on with each of the notes he's playing. Love it.

 

[Caleb Mills]

Here's something that is probably better suited for a different thread, but I'm going to say anyway... Maybe I need to switch to active basses? Like I said, I used to get that face-tingling low end with combo amps, and I've never used an active bass. But maybe that's an option that should be considered now? Seems like doing that would be just a short-term remedy to the real problem though...

 

[JimmyM]

Doesn't Hillsong's bassist use an SVT and 810e? Unfortunately, they're the only ones whose music I'm familiar with

 

[Caleb Mills]

Doesn't Hillsong's bassist use an SVT and 810e? Unfortunately, they're the only ones whose music I'm familiar with

Probably does... They have so many different bassists that it's honestly hard to keep up. Their tone is always top shelf no matter what though. Certainly they use all-tube SVT heads though, right? Isn't the SVT-3 Pro kind of a way to "fake" tube tone with the tube preamp?

 

[Joce]

I think focusing on your current rig (basses, amp, cab) would be better than to think active basses.
Unfortunately description of tone is very subjective, e.g. the massive low-end you are missing sounds to me like a lack of perceived volume in the low frequencies. I.e. you describe rattling pants off and face tingling, physical reactions to the soundwaves. At the same time you say volume isn't an issue, so my interpretation is probably off. What I'm trying to say is: You were happy with your basses and your old combo amp, so the basses should be fine. I can only recommend with the extensive EQ on the amp, which you've already done... Hopefully more experienced people can give you more specific EQ suggestions regarding the sounds of the bands you mentioned. HAve you by any chance engaged the -15dB pad? How do you set your gain structure? Check out these videos:

 

[JimmyM]

Probably does... They have so many different bassists that it's honestly hard to keep up. Their tone is always top shelf no matter what though. Certainly they use all-tube SVT heads though, right? Isn't the SVT-3 Pro kind of a way to "fake" tube tone with the tube preamp?

Oh absolutely. Do I think they succeeded, though? Like anything else that's not a for-real all-tube SVT, it has elements of that tone but it's not an exact match. Close enough that you should be able to get a good sound out of it, though Still want to know what year your cab is.

 

[Kevan Campbell]

Doesn't Hillsong's bassist use an SVT and 810e? Unfortunately, they're the only ones whose music I'm familiar with

There's like 50 or so people that rotate in and out of that band that it's anyone's guess what their bassist(s) actually use. My hunch says that they're all DI-driven to the FOH and the Ampeg you saw is just a rental for onstage volume.

 

[Bass 45]

I think something may be wrong with your rig - I would check that first as others have suggested.

Also , I would consider an Ampeg SCR-DI. I recently got one of those and it makes everything sound better and I own some nice basses and amps - including a couple of decent active basses.

 

[JimmyM]

There's like 50 or so people that rotate in and out of that band that it's anyone's guess what their bassist(s) actually use. My hunch says that they're all DI-driven to the FOH and the Ampeg you saw is just a rental for onstage volume.

If so, it's always a pretty Ampeggy-sounding DI

 

[Kevan Campbell]

If so, it's always a pretty Ampeggy-sounding DI

No doubt. Maybe they're using a Reddi and not telling anyone. I wouldn't presume to know for sure what they're running but being a church band and all I'm somewhat skeptical that we're hearing anything other that a dry signal to the FOH. I could be wrong and if I am I wish all these other churches trying to emulate Hillsong would follow suite and buy an SVT/Fridge setup for their bands...

 

[Mugre]

Have a tech who knows what they're doing power check the amp, take a look at the waveform and check or replace the big filter caps. An amp can be not putting out it's full rated power without sound "broken".

Kurt

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Can't say I've used the SVT-3 Pro at all, but I have used big cabs like the 8x10 before. Sometimes your volume can have a lot to do with how much low end it's delivering. Don't ask me for technical specs or graphs, I'm just going off my ears. Some cabs seem to "open up" more when you put more signal through them, things start to come out more even and clear at certain volumes. I would think there was not enough bass when all I needed to do was turn the volume or gain up some and there it was, plain as day. You may also want to try running your master volume near full-on and use gain for volume control. I started doing that after I got my MB200 and the master volume was non-existent (fixed at maximum), worked good on my Traynor YBA200 as well.

Try boosting your low-mids some as well, gets you a nice rubbery thump and low end.

 

[The Regulator]

A 3 Pro through an 810E should give you a good sound. I sometimes use a similar rig when I go to my friends house to jam. He has a 3 Pro through a 610hlf and all I do is tweak the EQ a bit. It never lacks in tone or volume.

 

[Caleb Mills]

I think focusing on your current rig (basses, amp, cab) would be better than to think active basses.
Unfortunately description of tone is very subjective, e.g. the massive low-end you are missing sounds to me like a lack of perceived volume in the low frequencies. I.e. you describe rattling pants off and face tingling, physical reactions to the soundwaves. At the same time you say volume isn't an issue, so my interpretation is probably off. What I'm trying to say is: You were happy with your basses and your old combo amp, so the basses should be fine. I can only recommend with the extensive EQ on the amp, which you've already done... Hopefully more experienced people can give you more specific EQ suggestions regarding the sounds of the bands you mentioned. HAve you by any chance engaged the -15dB pad? How do you set your gain structure? Check out these videos:

Good point, man. I guess it's hard for me to describe the exact tone I'm looking for in mere words. I've tried everything on the gain on that amp. Gain really low, master really high. Tried boosting the lows and low kids. Tried everything at 12. Tried the EQ. Tried the Ultra Lo and Ultra Hi switches. Tried tube gain up. Tube gain down. Nothing seems to work. That's why sometimes I wonder if the cab is the issue because it seems like I never can get a really nice, big, full low end without mudding up my signal. You could be totally right though. I said it's not a volume issue cause I feel like it's loud enough overall, but maybe the volume on the low end isn't cutting it? In that case, do I switch amps? I've read a lot about the SVT-3 Pro lacking volume, but I've never paid much credit to it