Ampeg Micro Vr but Louder?!?

[Bassbernd99]

I am currently having a Micro VR modded with a second power amp. I just live the MOSFET sound of the VR and am using up to four (4!) 210AVs. It just happens that the power section of an old Ashdown Little Giant 350 (MOSFET) seems to fit in there as well.

There is another player who has done that with the 1000 Watt Class D section of a Little Giant 1000.

I am the „other player with the additional 1000 Watt in a Mirco VR“. It is placed in that free space in the amp chassis. It has an own volume control and power switch and an input, so that I can use it as an independent power Amp for other external preamps. When the Poweramp Input is not used, the signal from the Micro VR Preamp is routed to the additional Poweramp. I can use the built in mosfet or the additional Class D Poweramp or both depending on which speaker out I choose.

The back original

the back with Upgrade:

The front is still like before upgrading:

Poweramp of an Little Giant 1000 (or 350) fits perfect the empty space.

A Bass Buddy and engineer from the German community www.bassic.ch crafted this for me.
I love my little powerhouse!

 

[Downunderwonder]

Yes Sir. I'm not doing it myself though. If everything goes according to plan, I will have two power sections in there - the original 200 Watts as well as the 350 Watts Ashdown. The latter was known for being far too quiet. That was due to a poorly designed preamp. There are people who put a boost circuit in there and boom, fat and loud.

My goal was to have 2 x 4 Ohms because of the four 8 Ohm cabs resulting in 2 Ohms when combined. This way I can hook them up as two pairs of 4 Ohms or one power section with 350 Ohms. Hoping for the best.

Remember to be super careful which daisy cab goes where, or your amp gets replaced by a smoking pile of poo.

 

[themeanreds]

The Micro VR has led me to suspect that I just prefer mosfet/Class A/B power amps to Class D.

I like, but don't love, a lot of the class D amps that I have tried (Quilter, other Ampeg, Genz). They all seem to be missing a little something; some kind of push or weight that always seems slightly lacking regardless of what the rest of the rig is like.

After using Class D stuff for a while, I tried the Micro VR. I immediately thought that I had found it! The class D amp that has oomph that I was not hearing in the others! Then I learned that the Ampeg's power amp is not digital. The thing just sounds amazing.

In other news: I tried running the preamp of the Micro VR directly into a tube power amp. It was a Peavey Classic 60, so the volume was relatively low, but damn; it sounded fantastic. Not better than the VR's power amp; just different.

 

[Samatza]

How do you mean exactly? How would I set this up? Certainly not opposed to using a 2nd Micro VR just not sure how to get full power out of 2 of them(which is what I assume you are suggesting) into 2 of the 210avs. I currently have a Walkabout(this is probably my 5th one), Ashdown abm 500 and the V4B and I STILL keep going back the the micro VR for home practice and band practice at our small practice space.

Just looking at the specs the cabs are 8 Ohms, you could use two cabs with the single head but if you needed more power you could use the DI out to input to a second head and cab or for max power two cabs each.

This may not be practical depending on space I understand but if you're like me and you like the sound you may put up with the extra kit to do it.

For me in most situations one head into one cab is enough, maybe two cabs for the odd gig. I've been thinking about this lately because I do like that sound.

 

[Samatza]

I like, but don't love, a lot of the class D amps that I have tried (Quilter, other Ampeg, Genz). They all seem to be missing a little something; some kind of push or weight that always seems slightly lacking regardless of what the rest of the rig is like.

I've had the same thought but usually everyone puts it down to 'it's your imagination'. Still I hear a difference, I don't know why.

 

[slapstick13]

Just looking at the specs the cabs are 8 Ohms, you could use two cabs with the single head but if you needed more power you could use the DI out to input to a second head and cab or for max power two cabs each.

This may not be practical depending on space I understand but if you're like me and you like the sound you may put up with the extra kit to do it.

For me in most situations one head into one cab is enough, maybe two cabs for the odd gig. I've been thinking about this lately because I do like that sound.

I do use 2 of the 210av cans and it just runs out of steam in my band. We do a lot of outdoor gigs in the warmer months. Just barely runs out of room so I'm close. I know the cabs will work for me because with the pf-500 it had the volume I need just would rather the glorious tone of the micro vr.

 

[themeanreds]

I've had the same thought but usually everyone puts it down to 'it's your imagination'. Still I hear a difference, I don't know why.

My instinct is to chalk it up to psychosomatic silliness. Have to trust my ears, though. Also, my not knowing that the Micro VR was not digital when I first tried it helps in this case.

Same thing happened to me with Neodymium magnet speakers. I like them a lot for bass; no qualms there. I have not found any neo speakers that I love for guitar, though. Something with the neo guitar speakers just doesn’t sound the way that I want it to. Chalk it up to taste (of which there is no accounting for, I hear).

 

[slapstick13]

I'm wondering how difficult/what's involved in putting that Ashdown little giant power amp into the micro Vr. Anyone...?

 

[JimmyM]

I'm wondering how difficult/what's involved in putting that Ashdown little giant power amp into the micro Vr. Anyone...?

If you're wondering how difficult it is, it's too difficult for you

 

[Just George]

I know this is going to sound ridiculous. But I love love the tone of my micro VR with my 2x 210av cabinets. I just need some more power/volume. I've used a couple 500 watt or so amps with the right volume for me(perceived or otherwise), but not the tone of the micro VR that I cherish. I have the ampeg v4b reissue, 2nd one, but I know it's hard to believe, I just dont love it. It's like I can't control the low end. So I've tried to force myself to love it(buying it 2x in the past few years) but alas I enjoy my micro vr tone better. The obvious obvious is an SVT, but too heavy for me. I've had a pf-500, didn't love it. Any ideas?

Have you tried a PF-800? I've found it has better lows and is very full sounding.

 

[Samatza]

My instinct is to chalk it up to psychosomatic silliness. Have to trust my ears, though. Also, my not knowing that the Micro VR was not digital when I first tried it helps in this case.

Same thing happened to me with Neodymium magnet speakers. I like them a lot for bass; no qualms there. I have not found any neo speakers that I love for guitar, though. Something with the neo guitar speakers just doesn’t sound the way that I want it to. Chalk it up to taste (of which there is no accounting for, I hear).

Those Neo speakers tend to stay fairly linear at different power levels and don't break up like ceramic speakers which can be a desirable trait for guitar amps.

I don't dislike D class but like you when I first plugged into the VR it just sounded so nice to my ears. I didn't know anything about it at that stage but even my son commented that it has an awesome sound in a small package. Like you I just go for what works for me and don't really worry about the underlying technology.

 

[SteveFromBerlin]

The Micro VR has led me to suspect that I just prefer mosfet/Class A/B power amps to Class D.

I like, but don't love, a lot of the class D amps that I have tried (Quilter, other Ampeg, Genz). They all seem to be missing a little something; some kind of push or weight that always seems slightly lacking regardless of what the rest of the rig is like.

After using Class D stuff for a while, I tried the Micro VR. I immediately thought that I had found it! The class D amp that has oomph that I was not hearing in the others! Then I learned that the Ampeg's power amp is not digital. The thing just sounds amazing.

In other news: I tried running the preamp of the Micro VR directly into a tube power amp. It was a Peavey Classic 60, so the volume was relatively low, but damn; it sounded fantastic. Not better than the VR's power amp; just different.

Exactly my experience. Hence the 2nd mosfet power amp and ehy I also bought a MESA Carbine M3.

I've had the same thought but usually everyone puts it down to 'it's your imagination'. Still I hear a difference, I don't know why.

Me 2!

I do use 2 of the 210av cans and it just runs out of steam in my band. We do a lot of outdoor gigs in the warmer months. Just barely runs out of room so I'm close. I know the cabs will work for me because with the pf-500 it had the volume I need just would rather the glorious tone of the micro vr.

I love the 210AVs and use up to four of them! From this experience I can tell you they are not designed to deliver at outdoor / big venue situations. They deliver a sweet sweet punch in the near field. But they can't carry it across long distances because they will fart out before being loud enough for outdoor gigs without a PA system.

A few weeks ago I had the honor of playing a 13K indoor venue. I finally understood the Ampeg 410 HLF. Until then, I absolutely hated that cab because it's too damn subby in every rehearsal space / small stage. But there I was able to walk all the way to the front end of the stage and still hear big fat low end. That's because it's ported and has a deep construction.

Compare that to the 210s: They are very slim, flat, not ported. That's the reason they have such a nice sound at lower volumes. I guess if you want more volume, the SVT-112AV would be the next step.

 

[Bassbernd99]

I'm wondering how difficult/what's involved in putting that Ashdown little giant power amp into the micro Vr. Anyone...?

I am not an engineer, but as far as I understood what my buddy does with my upgraded Micro VR it is not too complicated. Every amp or radio technician can do.

He took the signal after the Return of the effect loop, builds in a buffer to power up the signal for the Ashdown Poweramp (it really needs that). Connects the Power supply of the Ashdown with the one from the Amp.
And he builds that connection plaid (don‘t know the exact word) at the back with all the connectors like speakon, power switch an volume knob.

He thought about taking the signal after the mosfet. This would give the „full Micro VR sound“ But there were some technical issues and disadvantages, so we decided to take the Preamp-signal. For that way better built in a second Mosfet, like StevefromBerlin did.

Now I can choose, wether I want the original Sound with 200 w Mosfet, or the powered up signal from the 2 x 500 w class D. In most cases, even on outdoor Gigs with PA-Support, the 200 w Mosfet provides enough power for my needs. (Local Rock-Coverband, 10 Gigs a year, all members +/- 50 years old). Although I love the sealed cab sound of the 210AV, I changed to an efficient 210 with 4 Ohms and sometimes I use my two Orange SP212, sounding similar to sealed cabs.
Sometimes I will try to use 4 x 210AV like StevefromBerlin does. No Problem with the additional poweramp. Even 6 x 210 is possible with this setup.

 

[hamertek98]

I am not an engineer, but as far as I understood what my buddy does with my upgraded Micro VR it is not too complicated. Every amp or radio technician can do.

He took the signal after the Return of the effect loop, builds in a buffer to power up the signal for the Ashdown Poweramp (it really needs that). Connects the Power supply of the Ashdown with the one from the Amp.
And he builds that connection plaid (don‘t know the exact word) at the back with all the connectors like speakon, power switch an volume knob.

He thought about taking the signal after the mosfet. This would give the „full Micro VR sound“ But there were some technical issues and disadvantages, so we decided to take the Preamp-signal. For that way better built in a second Mosfet, like StevefromBerlin did.

Now I can choose, wether I want the original Sound with 200 w Mosfet, or the powered up signal from the 2 x 500 w class D. In most cases, even on outdoor Gigs with PA-Support, the 200 w Mosfet provides enough power for my needs. (Local Rock-Coverband, 10 Gigs a year, all members +/- 50 years old). Although I love the sealed cab sound of the 210AV, I changed to an efficient 210 with 4 Ohms and sometimes I use my two Orange SP212, sounding similar to sealed cabs.
Sometimes I will try to use 4 x 210AV like StevefromBerlin does. No Problem with the additional poweramp. Even 6 x 210 is possible with this setup.

I just add cabs.
But what the hell is wrong with old bass players?!? Lol

(50+)

 

[Bassbernd99]

I just add cabs.
But what the hell is wrong with old bass players?!? Lol

(50+)

LOL... nothing
We are experienced enough to keep stage volume as low as possible
Maybe 200 w is too poor for young metal kids, trying to empress the audience with hell-loud sound

 

[two fingers]

The Micro VR has led me to suspect that I just prefer mosfet/Class A/B power amps to Class D.

I like, but don't love, a lot of the class D amps that I have tried (Quilter, other Ampeg, Genz). They all seem to be missing a little something; some kind of push or weight that always seems slightly lacking regardless of what the rest of the rig is like.

After using Class D stuff for a while, I tried the Micro VR. I immediately thought that I had found it! The class D amp that has oomph that I was not hearing in the others! Then I learned that the Ampeg's power amp is not digital. The thing just sounds amazing.

In other news: I tried running the preamp of the Micro VR directly into a tube power amp. It was a Peavey Classic 60, so the volume was relatively low, but damn; it sounded fantastic. Not better than the VR's power amp; just different.

I've had the same thought but usually everyone puts it down to 'it's your imagination'. Still I hear a difference, I don't know why.

Right there with you. By far, my favorite two non-tube-power-section amps have been the Mesa Walkabout and the SVT 6 Pro.... both MOSFET.

 

[slapstick13]

So I tried using the my walkabouts poweramp(using the Micro VR's preamp by going from Micro VRs effects send into the walkabouts return) and it was definitely interesting. I 100% liked it better than the Walkabout by itself. I guess I really like the preamp of that damn Micro VR! Was louder than the 200 watt MOSFET of the VR as to be expected. BUT, tonewise, I could feel it was missing something that the VR gave me. Im hoping the PF-350 will be closer to what I need. I'd rather not lug around the walkabout just to use its power amp BUT I guess I could consider it a backup amp, while using its poweramp haha. Either way I will def end up with too many amps and have my wife yell at me. Oh well!

 

[Jim C]

So I tried using the my walkabouts poweramp(using the Micro VR's preamp by going from Micro VRs effects send into the walkabouts return) and it was definitely interesting. I 100% liked it better than the Walkabout by itself. I guess I really like the preamp of that damn Micro VR! Was louder than the 200 watt MOSFET of the VR as to be expected. BUT, tonewise, I could feel it was missing something that the VR gave me. Im hoping the PF-350 will be closer to what I need. I'd rather not lug around the walkabout just to use its power amp BUT I guess I could consider it a backup amp, while using its poweramp haha. Either way I will def end up with too many amps and have my wife yell at me. Oh well!

I'm surprised you hear that much volume difference.
Since you have an Ashdown ABM500, I would suggest you try this as above.
This test might also help decide if you like the MOSFET power section, the Micro VR pre amp, or possibly need both.
The PF350 would give you the correct pre amp but not a MOSFET power amp.

 

[slapstick13]

I'm surprised you hear that much volume difference.
Since you have an Ashdown ABM500, I would suggest you try this as above.
This test might also help decide if you like the MOSFET power section, the Micro VR pre amp, or possibly need both.
The PF350 would give you the correct pre amp but not a MOSFET power amp.

It wasn't much, but I def noticed a little bit more push, just more boxy sounding if that makes sense. Like too bold and 'hard', not soft and as 'pillowy' as the Micro VRs power section.
The Ashdown ABM 500 has a mosfet power section correct? Ill have to try this later for sure.

 

[Jim C]

It wasn't much, but I def noticed a little bit more push, just more boxy sounding if that makes sense. Like too bold and 'hard', not soft and as 'pillowy' as the Micro VRs power section.
The Ashdown ABM 500 has a mosfet power section correct? Ill have to try this later for sure.

Best I can tell the ABM's used MOSFETS.
From the web:
"Yes both the Ashdown ABM and MAG ranges use the same Mosfet output stage, and which are uncannily similar the the Trace Elliot amps, even using the same mosfet devices at times. No surprise there as they are all designed by the same chap, Clive Button. Trace did go through a bipolar phase for a while, but this didn't really work well as they had a habit of going pop due to a weak earthing point inside the amp, causing instability in the output section."
There was another post that said only the early British ABM's used MOSFETS but mine made in China does too.