Considering picking up one of the all tube versions of the Portaflex heads for double bass and electric bass. Anyone have experiences to share when it comes to using this for double bass with a piezo pickup? Thanks!
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Double Bass Ampeg Portaflex All Tube
- Thread starter sean_on_bass
- Start date
I've got an old school porta-flex for upright stuff and it's pretty wonderful. You're going to want to get a high pass filter, more than likely. Dude named FDECK sells them on here, the 'HPF-PRE'. Tames the low end, makes the amp have to work less, clears mud, fights stains, slices, dices, and has a built in volume knob which can be pretty clutch. I've got a series 1 and 3, and they're both delightful.
No problem there...i own a few different preamps that can handle the HPF. Did you use a solid state or tube version of the head?
Jazzdogg
Less barking, more wagging!
I played one at a high school concert a few years back, the whole flip top combo thing. It sounded good!
I have the modern PF-50T head, which I usually use with electric bass (with one or two home-built ported 1x12 cabs with Eminence Beta 12 drivers). Though I did use it for double bass when rehearsing a couple of times, and I was surprised how well it worked for that.
IMHO the little PF amps are fabulous, but they would not be anywhere near my first choice for upright bass.
The tone shaping capabilities are pretty limited and Ampegs tend to be flat, or even have a bit of a bump in the low mids. In my experience, you typically need a bit of mid-scoop with an upright to mitigate the tendency for feedback. This becomes increasingly relevant as your volume requirements increase. If your volume needs are really low, you should be fine.
If you are using a preamp then you may have what you need as far as corrective EQ...also a suitable preamp will serve as a buffer for the piezo.
I know there are a few famous players have have used an SVT and 810 live with upright. Honestly I don't know how they do it. I had this rig provided in the back line for a concert band tour to Siberia where I ran sound. The bass player really struggled to get a usable sound through the rig; it wanted to feedback at very low volume and IMHO it sounded awful even at low volume.
His pickup was an Ehrlund EAP and he usually used an AI Clarus driving an EA NL210. With the AI/EA rig, he never had any feedback problems and his sound was very natural and authentic; I.E. it sounded like an upright bass.
Avishai Cohen uses this rig when he plays live, and he sounds great. He also doubles, though, so there's that.
I've played with that rig twice on outdoor stages. One time was a blast and the other was a nightmare.
I have a '66 B15-N. As I understand, this amp and its predecessor(s) were designed for use with the double bass or the Ampeg Baby Bass. It's great for bass guitar, but for double bass it's WAY eclipsed by newer stuff. Plus I'd bust my hernia repair getting it up the basement stairs.
I've used every imaginable combination live for upright- both with my Underwood pickup, and with my Fishman Full Circle. With dedicated bass amplifiers, it's VERY difficult to capture all the nuances of a large bass violin, given the size of the acoustic chamber, and the propensity to feed back, especially near the sides of cabinets and monitors giving off standing waves...and of course, the kick drum. I played in a Western swing band for many years in these parts, and the best rig I found, was a Mackie M1400 power amp, an SWR Grand Prix preamp, and an SWR Triad cabinet. All gone now. The triad was only good for upright, it was really not a good stand alone cab for electric, in my opinion. I had a Workingman's 12 amp, as well. O.K. for upright, but weak for the electric. I currently have a GK MB 150, and I believe, as good a piece of gear as it is, it really comes up short compared to ONE thing. The best live amplified sound I've been able to achieve, with piezo pickups, is through powered PA cabs. I wanted a QSC K12, but I'm really on a no-gig-in-17 months kind of budget. I bought an Alto TS 215, and it sounds excellent with my electrics, and killer for upright- with my Fishman Pro EQ. I haven't used it on a gig yet..but the last gig I had, I tried a Rumble 200.. and it just doesn't really do it. Powered speakers seem to be the way to go these days.
Mine's a 65 B15NF (all tube) ($2300 in Memphis if anyone is interested) ... I pretty much leave the volume at 10 o'clock and there’s nothing like it. Most “acoustic” sounding amp I’ve ever played - when you let it do it’s “one trick”. I’ve been considering selling mine because i don’t like hauling it to the bar gigs and it’s really not crazy versatile - but have a sentimental attachment to it because my bass sensai sold it to me. I don’t know anything about the modern ones, though.
I use a PF50-T with a Fishman Full Circle on a Shen SB-80 and couldn't be happier with the sound. I get compliments on the sound from the audience and from within the bandstand.
I have a mid 60s SB-12 flip top and my upright (pre-war Juzek ply with a Lifeline and Spiros) sounds really great with it. I don’t like to take it out for gigs, though - too heavy, fragile (because of the tubes), and not enough power if things get louder.
I've been trying to implement all-tube heads for regular use with DB for years with varying degrees of frustration and success. These include: Mesa Bass 400 (non-plus), Sunn 200s, Traynor Bass Mate, Ampeg PF-50T and ValveTrain Brandywine. (The last two pretty close in concept to a B-15: 50W w/ classic "Bandaxall" tone circuit.)
What I have found is that when the voicing - and the volume - happen to be just right, there is this blissfuly musical response that can't be obtained any other way.
But the window where it works can be aggravatingly narrow. If you don't push it hard enough, you don't get that liveliness. If you need more volume than the modest power section can put out, you're out of luck. The tone controls are vague - awesome for general enhancement but lousy when you have some specific issue that needs fixing.
I haven't given up on it entirely. (Had promising results the other night running a line out - lets me run the amp at optimal gain then pipe that "mojo" into the PA.)
But for the time being, when it is not an occasion to experiment, my go-to has become the Bergantino B|Amp. Ruler flat (speaker profile w/ a Berg cab) w/ zero compression gives me a DB response that is full and musical and predictable. (There is also a notch filter onboard which I haven't had to use yet, but is easy as pie to implement when a certain drummer takes the stage volume into feedback territory.)
Tube or solid state, every amp I've ever tried works better with the fDeck for HPF and buffering. (Until that happy day when someone finally offers an amp with a 10M input and HPF...)
What I have found is that when the voicing - and the volume - happen to be just right, there is this blissfuly musical response that can't be obtained any other way.
But the window where it works can be aggravatingly narrow. If you don't push it hard enough, you don't get that liveliness. If you need more volume than the modest power section can put out, you're out of luck. The tone controls are vague - awesome for general enhancement but lousy when you have some specific issue that needs fixing.
I haven't given up on it entirely. (Had promising results the other night running a line out - lets me run the amp at optimal gain then pipe that "mojo" into the PA.)
But for the time being, when it is not an occasion to experiment, my go-to has become the Bergantino B|Amp. Ruler flat (speaker profile w/ a Berg cab) w/ zero compression gives me a DB response that is full and musical and predictable. (There is also a notch filter onboard which I haven't had to use yet, but is easy as pie to implement when a certain drummer takes the stage volume into feedback territory.)
Tube or solid state, every amp I've ever tried works better with the fDeck for HPF and buffering. (Until that happy day when someone finally offers an amp with a 10M input and HPF...)
I have three all tube amps that I use for upright all the time. I have various preamps that I plug into first and all have high input impedances and high pass filters. You get yourself a good preamp with high pass filter and EQ and I think a tube amp can be fantastic. None of mine are ampeg. All three of them have a fender tone stack but I set all three of them to be flat and do the EQ on the pedal preamp. Just running the signal through all those tubes I think does something great to the tone. I also have a couple Walter woods amps a quilter amp and an SWR baby blue and an acoustic image to compare to. I can get great tones out of all of them but I call the tube amps my self indulgent single chain because they're so much fun.
Part of the appeal of tubes is their warmth, but with that their will be the weight of the transformers, tubes themselves, and the rms wattage they provide. So it's a trade off.
I own a Vintage B-15NC and it's a very nice amplifier that weighs 75 lbs. The PF20T weighs 15 lbs. and the PF50T weighs 19 lbs. At this point I'm a confirmed SMPS Class D bassist.
I can get the sound I'm looking for out a a much smaller unit with better EQ sections. Just my take of course
I own a Vintage B-15NC and it's a very nice amplifier that weighs 75 lbs. The PF20T weighs 15 lbs. and the PF50T weighs 19 lbs. At this point I'm a confirmed SMPS Class D bassist.
I can get the sound I'm looking for out a a much smaller unit with better EQ sections. Just my take of course
I've heard something similar from guitar players and tube amps...the amp generally has a sweet spot that you need to find and just leave it there.
I used my 1964 B-15 on a friend's gig- after loaning it to said friend, who HAD to use it after he blew up his MB150. It was onstage, when I went to sit in. I had one of my active 5 string basses with me. It was a jazz gig- so, not really loud. It was really the first time, in many years, that I had really hit that 'sweet spot' we all know is there with these 1960's Ampeg B series fliptops. It was surprisingly musical, and my solo sounded really nice- tone wise. The problem, is the narrow window of this phenomenon of 'tube sag' mentioned before. One side of it, and it's practice amp volume, the other side of it, is bass kazoo.
Guitar amp technology, has REGRESSED to the point it really should never have strayed from. Bass amp technology, has advanced by light years. A 900 watt Shuttle 9.0 head, 4 pounds, and two 35 pound, 600 watt cabinets that sound better than any SVT- at a total weight 25 pounds lighter than just the SVT head. I know, I had a '69.... and all of it fits in the trunk of my Caddy.. including two amp heads, and two basses. Yes, that's right, in the trunk of a 2004 DeVille. A big plus, plus no one can see it... I'd say we're really fortunate to have these advancements in technology.
Guitar amp technology, has REGRESSED to the point it really should never have strayed from. Bass amp technology, has advanced by light years. A 900 watt Shuttle 9.0 head, 4 pounds, and two 35 pound, 600 watt cabinets that sound better than any SVT- at a total weight 25 pounds lighter than just the SVT head. I know, I had a '69.... and all of it fits in the trunk of my Caddy.. including two amp heads, and two basses. Yes, that's right, in the trunk of a 2004 DeVille. A big plus, plus no one can see it... I'd say we're really fortunate to have these advancements in technology.
I know Rick Jones decided to stop offering the 10 Meg Ohm Setting with the Clarus 3, 4 and 4+ heads and combos. So unless you have a series II or I the 10 Meg Ohm option isn't there.
At the time Rick and his team had decided that most pickups (with the exception of the Fishman BP-100) worked fine with a the 1 Meg Ohm Setting. Just what I've gathered.
