Ive got an Ampeg SVT6 Pro, and i seem to have a problem with it shorting out small venue's power... its fine in big places but if i turn it on in a small place it can blow the fuses, which understandably can make a few people quite angry. i have no idea about this, any help would be great...
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Ampeg Power Issues
- Thread starter gruskgo
- Start date
It's a powerful amplifier. If you plug into an AC circuit that is already supplying a good amount of power to other appliances, the inrush current for the amps power supply can push the breaker or fuse past its trip point. Remember an average AC circuit can only supply 1800VA. That's not a lot when consider the draw taken by a 1000W amp.
Paul
Paul
What is the solution at a small venue when you have the other instruments plugged into the circuit as well?
A high quality 25 or 50 ft long 12-gauge extension cord will usually reach another outlet on a different breaker/circuit that hopefully isn't already near its maximum capacity. (thoroughly duct tape the cord down anywere people might trip over it)
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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+1, though that can lead to ground loop problems, especially if DIs are used to the PA. The cure is a breakout box, a 220 input with a number of 110 outputs so that all the gear can be run off the same 220 outlet without fear of popping breakers. Of course, if there's no 220 outlet you're still up the creek with no paddle. That's when you politely inform the venue owner/manager that the services of an electrician will be required prior to your making a return engagement.
Most pro-audio power amps have a soft-start. It keeps a big inrush of current to charge the power supply caps. I'd be surprised if Ampeg didn't add one, but if they didn't you can add one yourself
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No soft-start in any of the Ampeg units............... Very rarely a problem, you seem to have hit the jackpot.
If it is a turn-on issue, an added soft-start can help, although depending on the unit it might need to be somewhat carefully made to avoid problems with a "partial turn-on" and resulting loud thumps at turn-on.
With most Ampeg units, ithe natural delay for the relays to connect the speakers will be much more than any soft-start, so the thump issue shouldn't really come up.
If it is a matter of hitting a loud note and shutting down power (don't laugh, it happens) that is purely typical bar rotten power. No fix, but finding another circuit might help.
For some reason the band often ends up on the same circuits with freezers etc, and the bar people get really torqued when that power goes out....
If it is a turn-on issue, an added soft-start can help, although depending on the unit it might need to be somewhat carefully made to avoid problems with a "partial turn-on" and resulting loud thumps at turn-on.
With most Ampeg units, ithe natural delay for the relays to connect the speakers will be much more than any soft-start, so the thump issue shouldn't really come up.
If it is a matter of hitting a loud note and shutting down power (don't laugh, it happens) that is purely typical bar rotten power. No fix, but finding another circuit might help.
For some reason the band often ends up on the same circuits with freezers etc, and the bar people get really torqued when that power goes out....
In a small place I tend to look into the kitchen area. Stoves have 120V outlet on them taken from its 220V supplies. very often these are not being used and as long as you run your extension cable neatly and out of the way most times the kitchen staff wouldn't complain. Also most outlets in a Kitchen are double 120V circuits so they too can be pressed into service. Try and find the power panel. Very often there is a couple of outlets just out side the breaker panel that are on independent breakers.
Paul
Back in the day, if you had a big PA, you went down to the power panel, and hooked into the breaker panel with huge alligator clips..... wired to your own distribution box on wheels..... It worked.
These days, you'd probably get chased out for that, but it worked. Probably wasn't very safe, but we didn't care, it worked.
These days, you'd probably get chased out for that, but it worked. Probably wasn't very safe, but we didn't care, it worked.
- Mar 24, 2005
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That's STILL true for the gigs that don't use a portable generator (I'm talking about those "huge alligator clips") . . . at least here in Mexico.
Yeap... That's true almost every(f***)where over here... ha ha ha, Living over here you actually understand some of those power conditioners, regulators, etc...
I have to fight this problem with my SVT-6 since I got it although, I've never had problems at a venue where they use wired fuses on the distribution board. But if they use Circuit Breakers, here in the UK, they're normally rated at 20A and, apparently, the inrush on an SVT-6 from cold at our 240Vac is close to that. It must be marginal though, because it doesn't do it every time. I hesitate to write the following because potentially, if there's a genuine fault on the amp, it could result in equipment and human safety issues but I'll share how I do it.
Get the bass rig powered up right at the beginning before the rest of the band's gear starts drawing current on the circuit.
If the amp trips the venue's breaker, leave the amp switched on and ask them (or better, voulunteer) to reset the breaker but tell them that if it trips again to reset again immediately. The inrush that second time won't be anywhere near as high as the first because the big HT capacitors in the Amp will have partially charged from the first attempt.
A similar but more self-contained workround is to build yourself a short mains extension plug & socket with a 10A (20A in US?) breaker between them. Plug the extention into the mains supply and the Amp into the extention. Power up. Your 10A breaker will trip but again, the big HT capacitors will have partially charged. Quickly plug the Amp directly into the mains supply and power up again. For me, it has never tripped the venue's breakers on that second attempt.
Andy.
Get the bass rig powered up right at the beginning before the rest of the band's gear starts drawing current on the circuit.
If the amp trips the venue's breaker, leave the amp switched on and ask them (or better, voulunteer) to reset the breaker but tell them that if it trips again to reset again immediately. The inrush that second time won't be anywhere near as high as the first because the big HT capacitors in the Amp will have partially charged from the first attempt.
A similar but more self-contained workround is to build yourself a short mains extension plug & socket with a 10A (20A in US?) breaker between them. Plug the extention into the mains supply and the Amp into the extention. Power up. Your 10A breaker will trip but again, the big HT capacitors will have partially charged. Quickly plug the Amp directly into the mains supply and power up again. For me, it has never tripped the venue's breakers on that second attempt.
Andy.
May I suggest that you have a tech look to see if you may have any cracked solder traces or connections in your amp, and also look at the entire power stages of the amp?
I had my Ampeg amp start to toss fuses on power up, and it was a few hairline cracks in some of the solder traces on the circuit board that were the problem. The tech redid them and it's been fine ever scince. It only cost me 55 bucks for that, plus he replaced two broken off e.q. sliders to boot. It shouldn't cost you an arm and leg to have it looked at.
I had my Ampeg amp start to toss fuses on power up, and it was a few hairline cracks in some of the solder traces on the circuit board that were the problem. The tech redid them and it's been fine ever scince. It only cost me 55 bucks for that, plus he replaced two broken off e.q. sliders to boot. It shouldn't cost you an arm and leg to have it looked at.
My 6-Pro threw a breaker once when I clicked it on. Never realized that we had soooo much junk on the floor until the lights turned off and I started walking...
If there is a fault in the unit, the unit breaker or fuse should trip/blow, so you should not increase hazards by your procedure.
Interesting, though, we did a lot of fuse and breaker testing, and rarely had any such problems. Must be the difference between an "IEC" breaker and a US one. I notice that IEC breakers, contactors, etc are usually a bit wimpier than regular US ones.
US breakers are generally available in more special types which won't trip on inrush, although they are just as safe against faults as any other one. Those SHOULD be used in any performance venue, but due to cost-cutting, often are not.......
Get a power conditioner so that when the small places of a drop or surge in power, your amp won't get the abuse!!!
I recently watched a demonstration by MONSTER of power conditioning and I will no longer play without it, whether in a large or small venue or in a studio! The MONSTER stuff also cleans up and filters the power as well, they and some of their competitors offer digital power inputs as well due to the "digital dirt"... Also, the little 3 prong power cable that comes with most amplifiers is not strong enough to handle the high wattage. IMHO it is extremely irresponsible of the manufacturers to "supply" us with cheap power cables. MONSTER also makes 3 different varieties of 8' power cables that will make a major difference to the right amount of current supplied to your amp.
IMHO get any brand of power conditioner you can afford and a heavy duty power cable!
Get a power conditioner so that when the small places of a drop or surge in power, your amp won't get the abuse!!!
I recently watched a demonstration by MONSTER of power conditioning and I will no longer play without it, whether in a large or small venue or in a studio! The MONSTER stuff also cleans up and filters the power as well, they and some of their competitors offer digital power inputs as well due to the "digital dirt"... Also, the little 3 prong power cable that comes with most amplifiers is not strong enough to handle the high wattage. IMHO it is extremely irresponsible of the manufacturers to "supply" us with cheap power cables. MONSTER also makes 3 different varieties of 8' power cables that will make a major difference to the right amount of current supplied to your amp.
IMHO get any brand of power conditioner you can afford and a heavy duty power cable!
Strange.........
Most of what you describe will do NOTHING for the original poster's problem...a turn-on surge popping the breaker......... unless the added resistance in series with the mains (due to the power conditioner) reduces the available amperage...... which would be the opposite of the power cord deal you mention.....
Then also, the supplied power cords are perfectly adequate to provide full power with ANY amp brand that I am aware of. It's a UL and CE requirement.....
So why would you say they are "not strong enough"?
Finally, since almost NO power conditioner will do ANYTHING for low voltage..... so whatever "abuse" of your amp that might be will NOT be affected by it......
And if you uncritically believe everything that the "Monster Cable" folks say, you may not be acting in your wallet's best interests...... They certainly go overboard making a case for their products....... I don't know that they actually "LIE"........... but their very high "need to convince" rating is obvious, to say the least...
At least they are more sensible (!) (?) than the folks selling the mains cables that are supposed to improve your sound, the $400 per foot speaker cable, or the latest one I heard, a "kit " of fast recovery rectifiers to put in your amp's power supply "for a dramatic improvement in sound"........
Monster specializes in selling the sizzle and not the steak. Most of the problems it claims to cure either never existed or are what I call "psychological equipment problems."
