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Ampeg Power Issues

#21
I am pretty much in agreement with Jerrold's post. Most power "conditioners" offer no improvement in the AC supply. Most are just power strips in a pretty box. The ones I use offer line filtering which I have found helpful in ridding myself of some AC line noise.

Fast recovery rectifiers can offer improvement in the sound of an amplifier but only if the rest of the power supply is designed to suit them. Most people, including me, would probably hear no difference.

A soft start circuit can be a simple as a metal oxide varistor at a cost of less than a buck. Why manufacturers of high power amps don't add soft start as standard seems a little odd to me. That being said, I have never tripped a breaker switching on any of my power amps and they range from 400W to 1500W.

Paul
 
#22
gruskgo said:
Ive got an Ampeg SVT6 Pro, and i seem to have a problem with it shorting out small venue's power... its fine in big places but if i turn it on in a small place it can blow the fuses, which understandably can make a few people quite angry. i have no idea about this, any help would be great...
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I may have misunderstood you when I made my earlier post. I thought you may have meant that your head was popping it's fuse. I'm not sure what to say about your problem, other than you must be playing in places that have inadequate power to begin with, and were wired for the electrical needs of say, 60 years ago.

I've experienced the same problem over the years in a few places I've played and it has to do with the building and it's wiring and low current level, than it is to be any fault of any of the band's equipment,beyond the total current draw placing a greater demand than can be had. You said your amp has no trouble in venues where the the wiring is presumably newer than say being installed in 1950. I've found the problem to happen in venues that are in usally in older buildings and it's the entire electrical demand of the band's gear that causes such problems. I wouldn't just blame your amp alone. I wish I had an easy answer about playing such places, but I don't.
 
#23
My SVT 6 Pro is tripping breakers as well. It has begun to annoy the management of the rehearsal rooms we have. It doesn't happen every time and there seems to be no consistency. I make sure i am first to power up....we even turn the lights out.

I need a solution FAST. the 10A breaker power lead is an idea but is there any other off the shelf solution. I can't believe that an amp of this quality should have this issue.
 
#24
Paddy_McBride said:
My SVT 6 Pro is tripping breakers as well. It has begun to annoy the management of the rehearsal rooms we have. It doesn't happen every time and there seems to be no consistency. I make sure i am first to power up....we even turn the lights out.

I need a solution FAST. the 10A breaker power lead is an idea but is there any other off the shelf solution. I can't believe that an amp of this quality should have this issue.
Click to expand...

A "fast" solution is probably the 10A CB......

The real problem is the breakers/fuses in the venue...... The circuit breaker IN the unit itself is normally of considerably LOWER current rating than the "venue" breaker, yet the "venue" breaker trips off "through" that lower rated breaker.

Obviously the "venue" breaker is VERY sensitive........ Which generally means it was the cheapest type available, put in by someone who did not understand what was going to be plugged-in.

Even amps with a 'softer-start" can and do have the same problem, although it is normally reduced.

Anyway, it is what it is, and while it normally gives NO problems, it certainly CAN give problems with marginal wiring.

An add-on breaker, or an add-on soft start are the solutions. The soft start is actually very do-able, for a decent technician.

It amounts to a relay and a resistor...... the resistor is in-line with power, and is shorted by the relay after a small time delay, so that the power is not inhibited by a resistor when the amp is in use.

If there had been sufficient reason, that would have been included in the unit. But the problem is pretty rare, as far as we found over 20 years of Ampeg manufacturing.
 
#25
A fun story: My son used to work at avery large retailer, I needed some speaker wire for instument cabs, foldbacks ect., with his discount I bought a 100' roll of Monster Cable 14awg. pure copper yada yada yada for less than lamp "zip" cord at the local hardware store. It it makes no difference in use, but did cost less with the discount (Store list was $120.00).
 
#26
By the time you get to multiple amps you really have to be careful with turning things on. When I did a portable DJ gig a few years back I showed up with My big PA and 500 feet of 10 guage, a bunch of outlets and a box fulla different manufacturers circuit breakers.

Most commerical panels are only of a few manufacturers.

My buddys band played in a little SH bar in a small town this last weekend, they have a BOX, and you flip open that lid and there's a 60 amp 220 panel inside. They have a big cable that runs to the BAR's fuse box. The 16" X 16" box has cords with outlets that run to the amps and PA system. (all store in the box) They basically cured their power problems with this method.

It helps to be like me too a licensed electrician who isnt afraid of a panel.

MY AMP rack basically has the same layout going in it to power the amps. I bought a FURMAN ASD-120, still waiting for it to get shipped.

The problem is the power circuit has TOO much crap on it and the amps startup surge is tripping the breaker/blowing fuse. Theres no power conditioner to fix that.

ONE of my 4PRO's on a "C" will pull 15.6 amps, I measured it. Its pretty easy to trip a 15 amp breaker, fortunately, commercial circuits are 20amps... Unless its really old. (they'll have adaptors in the fuse spot to adapt them down and 15 amp fuses screwed in, HAHAHAHA. I have that problem at my office. BOB
 
#27
I just Bought an SVT-6 Pro. It trips the breaker in my house every first turn on. My house is 10 years old and built to standard. At our practice facility, turn on dims the lights (New first class building). At my first gig with it, overhead lighting blinked (very new upscale venue)and I was the only one plugged in.
This does concern me. Also heard some popping and crackling after a couple of hours of play.
I have read about several of these units burning up (smoke,smell)
 
#28
I had issues with a 4PRO once, I actually tripped a circuit breaker in a my house a few times and every time I would turn the amp on my computer's trip box would start beeping (it only does that when the power goes out).

I got rid of it for that reason.
 
#29
Another issue is that the cheapest breakers are typically installed.

Those tend to open on surges....... ANY venue power should come from high inrush type breakers.... I like Square-D "Q0", which have that type available..... but they cost a little more, so people install something else.

We had the problem in the labs..... cheap dual breakers, pop pop pop.

You deal with whatever is there, what choice do you have?
 
#30
YES, I agree with Jerrold here. Most breakers are bought at Menard's or Home Depot even when adding a circuit in a bar. This is OK if you know what you are buying.

There's a lot of stuff in residential and commercial like Old GE panels and very old ITE's and stuff where the breakers are not HACR rated. You need HACR rating to run big motors for Air Conditioning etc. This is the high inrush rating Jerrold is refering to.

Its pretty obvious from the posts that the 6PRO is a monster when firing up cold. Its probably a unit that could benefit from a step start (soft start) circuit.

The other problem is when a venue installs a circuit they like to get some use out of it. Even the smallest SH Bar should have a 100A 240V distibution to the stage area no matter what, with nothing else on the circuit. But do they do that? Heck no thats like spending money.

They'll give you that 20 amp circuit to plug your bass amp into but they dont tell you the ice machine and the coffeemaker and the freezer cab are also on the circuit.

On the practice area issue... Yeah well I'd love to tell you what else is on that circuit, there's probably a 1989 IBM copy machine on the thing with a collator and stapler running on the other side of the wall. BOB
 
#33
Jerrold,
I hope you can answer this.
SVT-6 Pro has a circuit breaker on board. What size is it?
It would be a lot more convenient if the onboard breaker tripped first.
Why would there be a breaker of greater than 20 amps and can it be replaced with a different amperage?
 
#36
seamonkey said:
Add a softstart
Invalid Link Removed
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Don't think that will do, it is only rated at 6A continuous.

seamonkey said:
Sounds like you have something else plugged into the same circuit. Lights, other things in the same room, ... look around.
And I hope you didn't put a 20A breaker on a 15A circuit.
Click to expand...

+1


If there is nothing else on the circuit, the new breaker obviously can't handle a high inrush. The Square D catalog recommends their "HM" series for high inrush. That might cure your problem at home, but doesn't help much moving to other venues. The 6Pro draws a lot of power to make a lot of sound...Many small venues can't handle either. Chances are good that if you trip a breaker on powering up, it will trip when you're thumpin' away later.
An adequate soft start would get you through the inrush, and discretion with volume settings might get through the performance. The other option, of course, is to have a lower powered head for venues with inadequate power, which are all too common.
 
#37
Lucky I was here really Chaps! I have the very thing for the job:
5yqMWZ049437-02.jpg

very new school, green and all that rot eh!
Well even if you get a bit puffed and wheezy at the gig, it will charge the caps a bit so you have a half reasonable chance at plugging the bar steward in.
:ninja:
 
#39
bluedyna said:
Jerrold,
I hope you can answer this.
SVT-6 Pro has a circuit breaker on board. What size is it?
It would be a lot more convenient if the onboard breaker tripped first.
Why would there be a breaker of greater than 20 amps and can it be replaced with a different amperage?
Click to expand...

Domestic is 15A and export 230V is 8A. The breakers used are thermal type, and do have some time delay, but not that much.

If you can open a 20A breaker "through" the 15A one in the unit, it seems like there must be other stuff on the circuit.
 

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