Ampeg SVT--favored mid-frequencies

[acostaa]

Hello all,

First time poster. Please be kind!

I acquired an SVT-3 a few months back and have been fiddling with the mid-frequencies (MF) knob ever since. I can't seem to settle on a setting that I like best. They all sound great when in isolated from the rest of the mix, some just disappear or don't sound right when mixed in. I play hard rock and I oscillate between scooped and mid-bumped eq.

I have spent the last few days readings the forum discussions on here related to Ampeg SVT MFs And while they have been truly helpful and insightful, they still haven't help me figure it out and still need to spend more time working on my tone. Is it simply a matter of finding which setting sits best in the mix, or is there more to it? But while I continue to experiment I would like to know what setting you guys use on your SVT? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Cheers,

 

[Lovep]

Midrange selector is (1) 220 Hz, (2) 450Hz, (3) 800 Hz, (4) 1.6 kHz, (5) 4 kHz

For a mid-scoop or bump, try cutting or boosting selectors 1-3. I think selectors 4-5 are so close to the treble range that it takes a good cab (and mix) to really hear the differences. I usually like a mid-range boost, so I am boosting 2 or 3 (around 1-2 o'clock).

What type of cab are you using?

 

[acostaa]

Thank you for this. I'm playing through 2 Rumble cabs (4x10; 1x15). I've been switching between settings 2-4. 4 sounds best in isolation, but totally gets lost in mix. 2-3 don't get lost but 2 sits too far below guitar, and 3 verges on honky. I do notice that I prefer mid-shopping on setting 2 and mid-bumping on 3. It may be that, like you, you don't leave it on one setting but bounce around depending on your eq setting.

 

[Wasnex]

Thank you for this. I'm playing through 2 Rumble cabs (4x10; 1x15). I've been switching between settings 2-4. 4 sounds best in isolation, but totally gets lost in mix. 2-3 don't get lost but 2 sits too far below guitar, and 3 verges on honky. I do notice that I prefer mid-shopping on setting 2 and mid-bumping on 3. It may be that, like you, you don't leave it on one setting but bounce around depending on your eq setting.

I generally prefer 800hz on my SVTs. If this is producing a honky sound, I would consider the bass and cabs.

You may just not like the Ampeg sound. Ampegs have relatively flat mids. A lot of brands have a bit of a mid scoop, a la Fender, and people tend to prefer one or the other.

Since the SVT3 has a graphic, you should be able to work around the amps natural voicing a bit. Set the graphic flat and dial the amp in as close as you can with the tone controls. Then try to make subtle changes with the graphic to get the rest of the way there.

I find that when I am playing by myself, I like a sound that most people would consider fairly normal. However, when I am playing in group, I tend to like a much brighter and leaner sound. The reason is something called masking. When two instrument are playing the same frequency you will only hear the loudest instrument. When you are you playing with a group, pretty much everyone in the band is playing in the same frequency band as the bass. So if you want to hear certain frequencies, you have to boost them a bit. Since I like nice clear and articulate bass, that means I boost the mids and highs. I also aim my speakers at my head, so my ears are in the dispersion pattern for the mids and highs.

 

[acostaa]

Wasnex, Thank you as well for your insight. Playing with the graphic should help, I will try it. The realization that I may just not like the Ampeg sound had never occurred to me and is simply too much to bear! I should clarify that I do not dislike these frequencies, I simply can't decide on one to set as my foundation. I record multiple tracks of the same song, identical in every way except for the MF voicing, and they all sound good..until I start mixing in the guitar and I don't have a keen enough bass ear to find the sweet spot.

 

[Wasnex]

Wasnex, Thank you as well for your insight. Playing with the graphic should help, I will try it. The realization that I may just not like the Ampeg sound had never occurred to me and is simply too much to bear! I should clarify that I do not dislike these frequencies, I simply can't decide on one to set as my foundation. I record multiple tracks of the same song, identical in every way except for the MF voicing, and they all sound good..until I start mixing in the guitar and I don't have a keen enough bass ear to find the sweet spot.

The problem may actually be how the guitar is EQ'ed. Since you're dealing with recordings, try dropping off some of the extreme low end of the guitars to make some room for the bass. Unfortunately many guitar players really like to crank up their bass control, so it can get messy on a live stage. Actually almost every instrument and voice competes for space in the low mids, which is where the bass is supposed to live. If you are mixing, the EQ of each channel has to be tailored so that everything sort of fits together like a puzzle. The channels may all sound a little weird by themselves, but when you combine them it sounds like a nice mix.

You might want to Google "mask frequency slotting" and reading some of the related articles.

 

[JimmyM]

I like 800 because it's a good frequency for when I can't hear myself in a dense mix. Yes, use too much and it gets honky, but the knob does go both directions

 

[BogeyBass]

Yeah I dont know what 4 and 5 are for lol. Pretty much useless for me.

I left mine parked at 2.
Basically yes the natural mid dip on classic Fender tone stacks are around 450/600 depending where the other controls are at.
So in General its a good one for keeping the mid knob straight up or doing slight cut.

On other threads guys tend to like the 800hz setting and park it there.
If your use too or heard alot of Ampeg combo amps or Peavey amps with basic Bass Mid Treble.
The mid dip is way out in outer space or basically 800hz.

Some guys seem to like it for some reason, why...dont know guitar players dont even use it. But that is cut, boost kinda but not to much

1 setting is around 200hz some guys like that cut its deep, Boost is good for P bass Honk.
With most newer heads with BASS MID1 MID2 TREBLE

Mid1 is around 200 Mid 2 is around 400
Mid1 is the one that nobody does anything with lol, and leave it straight up.

Mid2 usually cut or boost, usually cut. hence the same old fender thing

most guys leave SVT parked at 2 or 3. So the whole Bass Mid Mid Treble thing covers both at once.

or basically 2) fendar tonstack sound 3) Ampeg / Peavey sound

of course the SVT offers boost and cut, not just cut. but exactly if you boost 450 or 800 its honky

then again everybody is different, some guys boost 4k and 6k on a EQ where bass doesn't exist
and think its the greatest thing ever. So each their own.

It could be your cabs, running my 810E or a 2x15 all 5 settings are pretty noticeable changes

 

[BogeyBass]

I like 800 because it's a good frequency for when I can't hear myself in a dense mix. Yes, use too much and it gets honky, but the knob does go both directions

Yeah its interesting how 750/800 plays out for bass.
Guitar players dont like it for cut, they like the typical Marshall/Fender 450/600

but yeah alot of amps with dual mids put the second mid at either 450ish or 750 ish
and it seems the classic SVT 220/ 450/ 800 settings tend to work well for bass players

 

[BogeyBass]

My Acoustic 370 also has simple Bass/ Mid /Treble controls

and the natural mid dip also sits high around 800.

So it seems pretty universal with alot of Ampeg, Peavey combo amps and Older Acoustics. 3 band tone stacks
Mid dip sits high

The early bassman tonestack sits around 450/600 depending on other knobs.

Later silver face put it lower to stay more in the 450. Deep settings down to 250 ish

so the whole 200/400/800 plays out. Guess that is multiples of around note A ?

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hello all,

First time poster. Please be kind!

I acquired an SVT-3 a few months back and have been fiddling with the mid-frequencies (MF) knob ever since. I can't seem to settle on a setting that I like best. They all sound great when in isolated from the rest of the mix, some just disappear or don't sound right when mixed in. I play hard rock and I oscillate between scooped and mid-bumped eq.

I have spent the last few days readings the forum discussions on here related to Ampeg SVT MFs And while they have been truly helpful and insightful, they still haven't help me figure it out and still need to spend more time working on my tone. Is it simply a matter of finding which setting sits best in the mix, or is there more to it? But while I continue to experiment I would like to know what setting you guys use on your SVT? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Cheers,

I either boost 1 or 2, or I cut 3

 

[Scotty4string]

On my svt vr with a p bass, I like to turn on ultra lo, cut bass to about 9 o’clock and boost 800hz to 3 o’clock. I find this gives me a good amount of mids and eliminates the honk.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I like 800 because it's a good frequency for when I can't hear myself in a dense mix. Yes, use too much and it gets honky, but the knob does go both directions

800 works just fine going either way. I prefer a 500 boost though. But, cutting 800 slightly gets in the same ball park.

 

[Jim C]

Generally a little bump at 800 or 1.6 kHz.
Bass and treble usually close to flat and set for the room / instrument.

 

[acostaa]

Thanks all for your suggestions, particularly the insight by Bogeybass. What I a gathering here is that there are benchmark amp tones available between all the modes. M2 (450Hz) = Bassman, M3 (800Hz) Ampeg, etc. Does the Marshall Super Bass tone stack also fit under the Fender Bassman "sound" , or is altogether different?

Also, it is curious to see that in the Ampeg 101 Pdf, under "classic Ampeg" sound sample settings, it is showing a boosted M2. As some of you mentioned boosted in 2 and cut in 3 gets you in the same area. I seem to be preferring to boost: I'm sure I'm not the only to feel that the bass sounds fuller with boosted mids than cut, regardless of the mid-setting it is on. While I still may not know which setting to park at, I do see now that I will want the mids way boosted.

 

[Jim C]

What I a gathering here is that there are benchmark amp tones available between all the modes. M2 (450Hz) = Bassman, M3 (800Hz) Ampeg, etc. Does the Marshall Super Bass tone stack also fit under the Fender Bassman "sound" , or is altogether different?

.

I don't agree with this.
It's not any kind of modeling amp and the EQ is straight ahead. Boosting one frequency over the other does not send one toward a particular voicing of a different brand of amp.
It is a bass amp that has cut and boost EQ circuity that sounds very musical.

Never played a Marshall Super Bass but did have a 400 watt Marshall SS head that sounded like it's own thing going on.

There is a reason why the Ampeg SVT was the most popular bass amps in the world for over 40 years and the reason is tone.
In the future I think one of the new class D heads will become king as the difference between tone and weight has gotten smaller very quickly. Mesa is certainly leading this although I'm happy with Ampeg tube pre's and Class D power amps right now.

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks all for your suggestions, particularly the insight by Bogeybass. What I a gathering here is that there are benchmark amp tones available between all the modes. M2 (450Hz) = Bassman, M3 (800Hz) Ampeg, etc. Does the Marshall Super Bass tone stack also fit under the Fender Bassman "sound" , or is altogether different?

Also, it is curious to see that in the Ampeg 101 Pdf, under "classic Ampeg" sound sample settings, it is showing a boosted M2. As some of you mentioned boosted in 2 and cut in 3 gets you in the same area. I seem to be preferring to boost: I'm sure I'm not the only to feel that the bass sounds fuller with boosted mids than cut, regardless of the mid-setting it is on. While I still may not know which setting to park at, I do see now that I will want the mids way boosted.

The layout of the Marshall tone stack is pretty much the same as the Fender tone stack. Different component values are used so the controls behave and sound a bit different. This relates to the bass, mid and treble controls.

The presences control is not actually part of the tone stack. It's a variable control built into the global feedback loop. The global feedback is applied between the output transformer and the phase inverter. Negative feedback is used to decrease distortion. In essence the presence control varies the amount of high frequency global feedback. Turning up the presence decreases the high frequency freedback. This increases the amplification factor of the high frequencies.

 

[High Camp]

Hello all,

First time poster. Please be kind!

I acquired an SVT-3 a few months back and have been fiddling with the mid-frequencies (MF) knob ever since. I can't seem to settle on a setting that I like best. They all sound great when in isolated from the rest of the mix, some just disappear or don't sound right when mixed in. I play hard rock and I oscillate between scooped and mid-bumped eq.

I have spent the last few days readings the forum discussions on here related to Ampeg SVT MFs And while they have been truly helpful and insightful, they still haven't help me figure it out and still need to spend more time working on my tone. Is it simply a matter of finding which setting sits best in the mix, or is there more to it? But while I continue to experiment I would like to know what setting you guys use on your SVT? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Cheers,

One: choice of cabs matters a lot for the sound, especially when the brands are different. Your bass will sound different with an Ampeg cab compared to your Rumble cabs, for instance. So trying out another cab (the Ampeg PF115HE cab for example) will probably tell you a lot.

Two: I find (on the whole) the Fender Jazz Bass a good match with a 450 Hz boost and the Fender Precision Bass a good match with a 800 Hz boost.

IMHO YMMV

Hope this will help you a bit.

 

[Wasnex]

I don't agree with this.
It's not any kind of modeling amp and the EQ is straight ahead. Boosting one frequency over the other does not send one toward a particular voicing of a different brand of amp.
It is a bass amp that has cut and boost EQ circuity that sounds very musical.

Never played a Marshall Super Bass but did have a 400 watt Marshall SS head that sounded like it's own thing going on.

There is a reason why the Ampeg SVT was the most popular bass amps in the world for over 40 years and the reason is tone.
In the future I think one of the new class D heads will become king as the difference between tone and weight has gotten smaller very quickly. Mesa is certainly leading this although I'm happy with Ampeg tube pre's and Class D power amps right now.

IMHO the component values of the tone stack definitely factors into how an amp is voiced. Also the type of tone stack is significant. The SVT's James tone stack is relatively flat so this is a characteristic of the amp's sound.

The Fender tone stack is typically a bit mid scooped, so this is a characteristic of Marshall Super Bass sound. As I mentioned in my last past, the Super Bass has different component values in the tone stack than the typical Fender, and also a presence control. This is part of the reason why it does not sound like a Fender. Of course there are other aspects of the design that make it sound different than a Fender as well.

The voicing of amps with Fender tone stacks can vary significantly. The most extreme example in my collection is my Ashdown CTM300. Ashdown tube amps have a strong heritage with Trace Elliot V-Types. I own series I and Series II V-Types, as well as an Ashdown 427 and CTM300. The layout of the tone stacks in these amps are all very similar; they are all variations of the Fender tone stack with a few added components to provide some flexibility. All four have unique voicings due largely to differences in component values in the tone stacks. The 427 is closer to the V-Types than the CTM300. The CTM300's voicing reminds me a bit of my SVTs in some ways, as it tends to have strong low mids.

 

[Arthur U. Poon]

Hello all,

First time poster. Please be kind!

I acquired an SVT-3 a few months back and have been fiddling with the mid-frequencies (MF) knob ever since. I can't seem to settle on a setting that I like best. They all sound great when in isolated from the rest of the mix, some just disappear or don't sound right when mixed in. I play hard rock and I oscillate between scooped and mid-bumped eq.

I have spent the last few days readings the forum discussions on here related to Ampeg SVT MFs And while they have been truly helpful and insightful, they still haven't help me figure it out and still need to spend more time working on my tone. Is it simply a matter of finding which setting sits best in the mix, or is there more to it? But while I continue to experiment I would like to know what setting you guys use on your SVT? Thanks for any insight you can provide. Cheers,

My favorite was #1 and #2. But there were many times #3 worked the best for the room and for the band I was playing in.