Ampeg Upgrades?

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Ok... thanks for the info. That leaves me with 2 questions:
1) Isn't a 12DW7 required somewhere to duplicate the exact circuit?

...not the way the VR circuit is designed.

2) My SVT-VR is US made, does that make it 1st generation or were there multiple iterations made in the US?

I doubt it. The reason I'm so careful about making sure that your amp is a US made VR is that the Vietnamese made SVT VR I played didn't sound or weigh equivalent to the original SVT, indicating that overseas models had parts substitutions that compromised the amp.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Modeled the cabinet? I am a musician, brother... not an engineer. I'm lucky to accomplish a string change without screwing somthing up. Any guidance you offer, I'll gladly accept. But if you don't mind, I could do without being berated.

I realize that I am grasping at straws by looking into a speaker change with such haste, but surely a better made speaker will help eliminate the floppy bottom end of this rig.

The 12DW7's should cut the hot signal from my bass - even in passive mode - but those cheap ass speakers MUST have some impact here.

If you search the FAQ on WinISD pro they will tell you a lot about how to accomplish your goals. If the speaker installed is incompatible with the cabinet your upgrade could well be a rather expensive and nasty downgrade as well as possibly damaging perfectly good drivers. Nobody was berating, you just telling you the facts of life of speaker exchange. Modeling of speakers and cabinets is something that is done extensively by the people on this forum and most match your self description. You don't have to be an engineer to use cabinet modeling software.

Every MUSICIAN should know basically how his equipment functions in order to get the best out of it. I am a musician which led me to become an engineer, as are many many folks on these forums. If I or anyone else for that matter, gives you bad information trust me I will be jumped on quite harshly. Posting bad stuff is frowned upon very seriously by all.

Paul

Paul

 

[Hansomatic]

If you search the FAQ on WinISD pro they will tell you a lot about how to accomplish your goals.

What is WinISD? How do I find it?

If the speaker installed is incompatible with the cabinet your upgrade could well be a rather expensive and nasty downgrade as well as possibly damaging perfectly good drivers.

Ok. Thanks for the input.

You don't have to be an engineer to use cabinet modeling software.

can you recommend some medeling software?

Every MUSICIAN should know basically how his equipment functions in order to get the best out of it.

We're still talking about my bass rig, right? Kidding aside, I have been recording for years now and still don't know a fraction of what my gear does. From my Fantom X8 to the Millennia STT-1, I have MUCH to learn. I am trying to get back to roots.

1) Great songs
2) great performances, and
3) solid recordings

I am in a tailspin right now because I bought a '67 B15, fell in love, and sold my SWR Super Redhead for the SVT rig thinking it would give me similar tone at gigging volume. I was wrong - but not totally disapointed.

I just need to get this rig to tighten up on the low end and stop driving the preamp tubes to hard so I can get back to the aformentioned goals. I want growl, not clip or distortion.

I am going to try PBG's suggestions and have the voltage protection relay removed while replacing the 12AU7 with a 12 BH7. After that, the cab will be addressed. I hear a lot of guys singing the praises of Benti cabs. I may try one. My primary beef with the cab is the cheapo speakers. I know it isn't fair to judge a speaker by its looks, but these things look like the cheapest dang speakers I've ever seen in a bass cab.

 

[BassmanPaul]

What is WinISD? How do I find it?
Ok. Thanks for the input.
can you recommend some medeling software?

We're still talking about my bass rig, right? Kidding aside, I have been recording for years now and still don't know a fraction of what my gear does. From my Fantom X8 to the Millennia STT-1, I have MUCH to learn. I am trying to get back to roots.

1) Great songs
2) great performances, and
3) solid recordings

I am in a tailspin right now because I bought a '67 B15, fell in love, and sold my SWR Super Redhead for the SVT rig thinking it would give me similar tone at gigging volume. I was wrong - but not totally disapointed.

I just need to get this rig to tighten up on the low end and stop driving the preamp tubes to hard so I can get back to the aformentioned goals. I want growl, not clip or distortion.

I am going to try PBG's suggestions and have the voltage protection relay removed while replacing the 12AU7 with a 12 BH7. After that, the cab will be addressed. I hear a lot of guys singing the praises of Benti cabs. I may try one. My primary beef with the cab is the cheapo speakers. I know it isn't fair to judge a speaker by its looks, but these things look like the cheapest dang speakers I've ever seen in a bass cab.

I have already told you about WinISDPRO. Search the FAQ and you will find most of the info you need. If you post the cabinet internal dimensions someone will probably be able to advise you.

Falling in love with a B15 was your first mistake and buying anything else to get that sound was your second. I will agree on the B15, I have one myself, but it is a unique beast and IMO no Ampeg since has been able to duplicate that tone.

Following PBG's advice is a good move. He knows more about SVTs than anyone I know. Good luck with your mission I hope you succeed.

Paul

 

[Hansomatic]

I have already told you about WinISDPRO.

I'm sorry I asked...

Search the FAQ and you will find most of the info you need. If you post the cabinet internal dimensions someone will probably be able to advise you.

Google helped.

Falling in love with a B15 was your first mistake...

Not sure I understand why.

Following PBG's advice is a good move. He knows more about SVTs than anyone I know.

It is clear that PBG is not only competent, but genuinly interested in sharing his knowledge instead of using it as a brick with which to beat newbs like me.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Hansomatic,
Please give Paul another chance. He wasn't trying to be abrasive; it was just a miscommunication. He and I have had similar misunderstandings before, but unlike a lot of posters here, he means well and isn't just giving you grief because you're new.

His point about speakers is valid. In your 6x10, which is ported, if you don't replace the speakers with ones that will work with the cabinet's air volume, you're wasting your money and will probably damage your new speakers. FWIW, I think you'd be much better off selling your Ampeg 6x10 and looking into the Bergantino NV610. It would be about the same price or cheaper as replacing the speakers in your current cab and you'd end up with a cabinet that most SVT user swear by.

 

[BassmanPaul]

Thanks for the kind word Pyscho, they're appreciated.

To try and answer the OP, the B15 was designed at a time when MI amplifiers were in their infancy and what cabinet design there was was either "let's make the box this big" or somewhat of a 'black art'. The B15 was one of those rare occasions that errors added up to something greater than its parts. It IS a really good bass amp and it is seductively easy to fall in love with. Thus my small jest about your first mistake. Players have been talking about how to get a gigable B15 tone for years. When I bought mine it was a nod to my misspent youth where I dreamed about either a B15 or a Fender Dual Showman. I already owned the rig that completely satisfies all my wants.

Your problem with your cabinet stems from trying to use a multi 10 cabinet to get the sound of vintage 15. You seem to have assumed that all Ampegs would sound pretty much the same. As Ampeg is no longer the company that it once was sadly this is not the case and thus my second mistake jest. Personally I don't care for Ampeg amps, they are not how I hear my sound. Others however, revel in them and that's great, we can't all like the same things (thank God).

So many players on this forum advocate "upgrading" speakers with such and such a driver and state what an improvement it was. This does happen, but only if you are very very lucky. Since the work of Theile and Small, cabinet design has become much more of a science and there are several box design software packages that do the work for you. I have never used WinISD Pro, I run Macs, but it is recommended on this site time after time by people whose opinions I have learned to respect. If you wish to build or modify speaker cabinets you should have a copy and learn how to use it. Your results would be so much better than guess work or leaps of faith.

I am saddened that you feel I have beaten you with a brick. I was only trying to give you the facts as I see them based on my years of experience. I expected you to know how to do a search, there's a search link on the top of every page and Google is an internet staple. There is also the fact that sometimes some posts are from people who only want confirmation of how clever they are. I did this and that and even if what they did was consummately wrong and you tell them the truth, they simply will not listen and think that they know so much better never having done anything like it before. As I said above, I hope you succeed with what you are trying to achieve.

Paul

 

[Hansomatic]

Thanks for the kind word Pyscho, they're appreciated.

To try and answer the OP, the B15 was designed at a time when MI amplifiers were in their infancy and what cabinet design there was was either "let's make the box this big" or somewhat of a 'black art'. The B15 was one of those rare occasions that errors added up to something greater than its parts. It IS a really good bass amp and it is seductively easy to fall in love with. Thus my small jest about your first mistake. Players have been talking about how to get a gigable B15 tone for years. When I bought mine it was a nod to my misspent youth where I dreamed about either a B15 or a Fender Dual Showman. I already owned the rig that completely satisfies all my wants.

Your problem with your cabinet stems from trying to use a multi 10 cabinet to get the sound of vintage 15. You seem to have assumed that all Ampegs would sound pretty much the same. As Ampeg is no longer the company that it once was sadly this is not the case and thus my second mistake jest. Personally I don't care for Ampeg amps, they are not how I hear my sound. Others however, revel in them and that's great, we can't all like the same things (thank God).

So many players on this forum advocate "upgrading" speakers with such and such a driver and state what an improvement it was. This does happen, but only if you are very very lucky. Since the work of Theile and Small, cabinet design has become much more of a science and there are several box design software packages that do the work for you. I have never used WinISD Pro, I run Macs, but it is recommended on this site time after time by people whose opinions I have learned to respect. If you wish to build or modify speaker cabinets you should have a copy and learn how to use it. Your results would be so much better than guess work or leaps of faith.

I am saddened that you feel I have beaten you with a brick. I was only trying to give you the facts as I see them based on my years of experience. I expected you to know how to do a search, there's a search link on the top of every page and Google is an internet staple. There is also the fact that sometimes some posts are from people who only want confirmation of how clever they are. I did this and that and even if what they did was consummately wrong and you tell them the truth, they simply will not listen and think that they know so much better never having done anything like it before. As I said above, I hope you succeed with what you are trying to achieve.

Paul

Paul, Thank you for the note. I see your points clearly and sincerely appreciate your perspectives - and the effort. For the record, I tried the search function. It provided 0 results and suggested I need to upgrade my membership - which is something I'll do. Sure, I could have used google right off the bat, but a big part of why I am here is for social interaction. I'm not a hermit, but I do work a lot these days and my evenings are monopolized by my loving wife and our baby girl. No time for friends, it seems.

I think your point about everyone having their own sound is exactly why I am not going to run out and grab an NV610. I'd like to push the gear I have a step further to solidify what is already a good baseline. In the end, the ideal tone and inflection will come from me, not necessarily my gear.

On another topic, my last B15 was just barely loud enough for rehearsals - but it sounded fantastic. It was, as most B15's are, very well suited for the studio as well. I definatly screwed up when I sold it to build the SVT rig.

I am searching high and low for another Portaflex head. If I can find a 50 watt head that needs a full resto, that would be ideal. We'll see how it goes.

Perhaps the mods PBG suggested (for my SVT-VR) will find me lucky. If not, at least it will feel good knowing that my VR is a little closer to an original blue-line SVT.

 

[BassmanPaul]

With reference to your edit about how you type - as long as you don't look like one or have a butt like one you should be good to go!!!

Paul

 

[Hansomatic]

With reference to your edit about how you type - as long as you don't look like one or have a butt like one you should be good to go!!!

Paul

Yeah... I was 'too cool' in school to take the typing class. Talk about a short-sighted decision.