Double Bass An Ehrlund blog, sort of

[drurb]

...After a while of playing with it, my ear gets used to it and I don't like the sound (nothing is as good as an un-amplified bass).

If you get used to it, then it would seem you'd like it! I can only relate my own experience. I started by putting my rig up on a table and moved the position of the EAP until I got what seemed reasonable close to the acoustic sound of my bass. That was a good starting point. I ended up making a small change in the position. On a gig, it's a different story, of course. When I want to cut through, adjust for the room, adjust for the other instruments, etc., I use my parametric tone-shaping section. There is no single position of the EAP that will work well under all conditions if one is not willing to employ tone-shaping.

I've made this argument before. There is nothing sacred, desirable, or sensible about setting one's amp "flat." No cab is truly flat, no cab in a room produces a flat response (unless you design the room for the cab ).

My advice: At home, away from the bandstand, find a location for the EAP that produces a reasonably natural sound. Don't move it (much). Use the tone controls. This assumes that what one is after is "my bass but bigger." If that's not what you're after, then my advice here isn't as relevant.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

After a while of playing with it, my ear gets used to it and I don't like the sound (nothing is as good as an un-amplified bass). But then I switch back to the Full Circle and am startled by how artificial the "piezo sound" is. Also, blending the two seems like a waste of time. The Full Circle doesn't add a thing.

I had that experience with the FC the other night- wasn't sure if I loved the EAP after the first set, but when I played a tune with the FC at the beginning of the second set, I realized I wasn't that impressed with it after getting used to the EAP. Then I moved the EAP and got a better tone.

My Gage came off last night, since I absolutely am certain the EAP wins the arco competition. Gonna leave the FC on for now since it's a pain to remove and doesn't affect the acoustic sound. It might be nice on super loud gig- not sure yet.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

I just spent some more time refining the placement of the EAP, it came a little further away from bass bar for more bottom. That room I was in the other night is a nightmare and probably need more high end then elsewhere. Also took some putty off and have it closer to the bass- less than .5mm.

I also just did some A/B's with my FC, DPA, and tried some various blends through my Headway EBD-1. More confusing than illuminating, but I was leaning towards the full circle by itself or the EAP alone, at least through an amp. Adding blends didn't do much. I think I will have to take the DPA to a gig and send it vs the EAP out front.

As I would expect, the DPA has less volume and more bleed and feedback through the amp than the EAP. The character was very similar- the EAP really sounds like a mic.

I'm still getting more feedback and some woofy resonant notes through the EAP then I would like. I can see it more likely that it would work alone than the DPA would (that never worked), but I'm not sure if it's going to beat the FC for a quick and dirty gig with amp only.

Right now I'm leaning towards keeping the EAP for low volume or arco intense gigs, the FC for louder gigs, and selling the DPA and Headway (and Gage).

BTW, the EAP preamp is really easy to use, small, and clips nicely onto my SFC handle. I don't forsee it being a drag to add to my setup, unlike some larger pres that needed power or whatever. Actually, having the volume knob is handy for turning it off between sets- the SFC lacks a mute switch.

 

[drurb]

...it came a little further away from bass bar for more bottom. ...Also took some putty off and have it closer to the bass- less than .5mm.

You're sneakin' up on where I ended up in terms of positioning and mounting on my bass.

...the EAP really sounds like a mic.

Could there be higher praise?

I'm still getting more feedback and some woofy resonant notes through the EAP then I would like.

I've found the polarity switch on the Ehrlund pre to be very helpful when that happens. Usually, one position is clearly better than the other.

 

[engedi1]

Could there be higher praise?


.

indeed. I have done a little recording with the EAP and it definitely does NOT sound like mic, when you compare the track side by side with a good condenser mic, but it sounds about a million % better than a piezo does straight to the board. Of course recording straight to the board is not the main goal here, live reinforcement is, and for that purpose, it sounds an awful lot like a mic but with less hassles. I have used mics on gigs, and find it very difficult to get an even balanced tone. No sweat with the EAP.

 

[drurb]

...when you compare the track side by side with a good condenser mic...

Not a fair fight.

...live reinforcement is, and for that purpose, it sounds an awful lot like a mic.

Indeed. That's where it needs to be "mic-like" and it's amazing that any pickup can manage that.

 

[Adagio]

II have noticed that it is much easier to produce feedback with this than the Full Circle. Hence, my caution. At the crappy venues I often play, having a HPF and EQ onstage seems mandatory to dealing with idiot sound-men.

IME you'd need an HPF an EQ for your monitor even with a good soundmen. Still, the FC I has been more resistant to feedback than the Ehrlund for me too.

IAfter a while of playing with it, my ear gets used to it and I don't like the sound (nothing is as good as an un-amplified bass). But then I switch back to the Full Circle and am startled by how artificial the "piezo sound" is. Also, blending the two seems like a waste of time. The Full Circle doesn't add a thing.

I blend those two and get pretty decent sound. In fact, lately I've been more satisfied with this sound than what I get from my mic. FFIW, it set the levels 75% Ehrlund and 25% FC. The FC adds lots more articulation and definition in the lows as far as I'm concerned...

 

[drurb]

...FFIW, it set the levels 75% Ehrlund and 25% FC. The FC adds lots more articulation and definition in the lows as far as I'm concerned...

Well, at least you have it down to 25%. I'm developing a patch that you can wear that will help to wean you off of the articulation. Alternatively, you can try to reduce by 2.5% per week on your own.

 

[Ric Vice]

IME you'd need an HPF an EQ for your monitor even with a good soundmen. Still, the FC I has been more resistant to feedback than the Ehrlund for me too.



I blend those two and get pretty decent sound. In fact, lately I've been more satisfied with this sound than what I get from my mic. FFIW, it set the levels 75% Ehrlund and 25% FC. The FC adds lots more articulation and definition in the lows as far as I'm concerned...

In my particular case, I see no tonal advantage in blending the Ehrlund with a piezo. When I attempted blending two pickups, one device will override the other's timbre so the net result is that either the piezo or the Ehrlund is more audible in the mix. So for me personally, one pickup yields the best tone quality.

Ric

 

[fdeck]

Here's where it sits. Notice that you can hardly see any putty. If anything, I have even less putty on there since I took this pic.

Watching from the sidelines...

One effect might be that a thinner blob of putty is stiffer, thus altering the resonant behavior of the pickup.

 

[drurb]

Watching from the sidelines...

One effect might be that a thinner blob of putty is stiffer, thus altering the resonant behavior of the pickup.

That's quite possible. The goal for me is to get the vibration to the pickup in as direct a manner as possible. One of these days, you might just jump off the sidelines.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

I blend those two and get pretty decent sound. In fact, lately I've been more satisfied with this sound than what I get from my mic. FFIW, it set the levels 75% Ehrlund and 25% FC. The FC adds lots more articulation and definition in the lows as far as I'm concerned...

I could see that working in some situations. I might try it again on a gig, though that's getting to some extra setup hassle that won't be happening on a casual.

Are you using the Headway?

 

[drurb]

The Ehrlund Purist Club (EPC), is composed of members who have essentially cast off all other pickups and have decided to use the EAP as their sole pickup on at least 90% of their gigs. If you've cut the cord (pun intended) to other pickups in this fashion, just assign yourself a number.

Member #1: drurb

 

[notabene]

#2:nota bene

 

[Chris Symer]

As for blending two pickups (or a pickup and a mic), I have had much better experiences when using sources with very different sound. A mic and a thumpy pickup, or two "mic like" signals have never gotten as good of result as mixing a mic with something much more compressed like a Wilson or Underwood. In a muddy room where the warmth of the Ehrlund or a mic is lost or even counter productive it is great to be able to dial in a more "direct" sound. It saved my rear on a gig just last night in fact. Truth is, the great sound you think you are getting when you are playing alone isn't always the one that will translate best when the tenor players veins start bulging and the drummer is enjoying his new 20" K that sounds "just like Tony"
I love the ease of just showing up and playing, or when needed, amping as simply as possible. The Ehrlund has made that easier for me and works wonderfully most of the time, but you won't find me taking any vow of pickup monogamy. So far the Ehrlund by itself has worked great 90% of the time that I needed it, but that has left me 2-3 gigs a month where it just wasn't that happening. Having an extra cable and pickup in my bag, and the ability to easily mix it in when needed, is a no brainer for me.

 

[drurb]

...So far the Ehrlund by itself has worked great 90% of the time that I needed it, but that has left me 2-3 gigs a month where it just wasn't that happening.

Well, then you fit the criterion for membership! (See the "90% rule"). Of course, this is all in good fun.

FWIW, I've yet to encounter a situation where the Ehrlund didn't cut it but, granted, I'm not a working pro gigging multiple times per week.

 

[Chris Symer]

Yea, I realize the 90% holds for your club rule, but casting off all other pickups? I am way to fickle for that!

 

[David Morris]

The Ehrlund Purist Club (EPC), is composed of members who have cast off all other pickups and have decided to use the EAP as their sole pickup on at least 90% of their gigs. If you've cut the cord (pun intended) to other pickups in this fashion, just assign yourself a number.

I've only had one gig with the EAP, but if the excellent results of that lower-volume experience are similar with a higher-volume gig or two, my Full Circle will have come full circle, as it were. Save me a number for a couple weeks.

 

[Robin Ruscio]

The Ehrlund Purist Club (EPC), is composed of members who have cast off all other pickups and have decided to use the EAP as their sole pickup on at least 90% of their gigs. If you've cut the cord (pun intended) to other pickups in this fashion, just assign yourself a number.

Member #1: drurb

Oh no, the Blog has devolved into an ethnocentric sectarian society!

First they came for the BP-100, and I said nothing, since I did not use the BP-100. Then they came for the Underwood, and I said nothing, since I did not use the Underwood. . . . etc.

 

[engedi1]

I claim number 3. This will be the only TB club I have ever joined. Technically, I still own a K&K bass max, but I have not used it in like, 5 years. I use the Ehrlund on 100% of my gigs and rehearsal, and only have the K&K as backup in case of total failure. I also have a little radioshack condenser mike that I have experimented with (works better than you might think) and I also keep that as a backup, as it sounds better than the K&K but is feedback prone of course and a little boomy.