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Another B-15 Speaker Q.

Blue

Supporting Member
Jun 19, 2004
753
208
Southeast North Carolina
I tried a Eminence Delta 15 in my B-15 (1968, all octal tubes, single baffle) ... and while it had the "tone", it farted out on the low notes. I play in standard "D" so maybe that extra step down is the reason, but I'll be sending it back to Parts-Express.

I had tried the D140, but found it - maybe too sweet (?) plus it farted too.

I almost REALLY love the Altec 421 - a true ROCK set-up ... but it's just a bit muddy, like a blanket over the cab.

I've read there's a Faital (?) .. any better ideas?

https://usspeaker.com/faital pro index-1.htm#15 inch speakers
 
I tried a Eminence Delta 15 in my B-15 (1968, all octal tubes, single baffle) ... and while it had the "tone", it farted out on the low notes. I play in standard "D" so maybe that extra step down is the reason, but I'll be sending it back to Parts-Express.

I had tried the D140, but found it - maybe too sweet (?) plus it farted too.

I almost REALLY love the Altec 421 - a true ROCK set-up ... but it's just a bit muddy, like a blanket over the cab.

I've read there's a Faital (?) .. any better ideas?

https://usspeaker.com/faital pro index-1.htm#15 inch speakers


Just my opinion but I think almost any speaker will overdrive in that cabinet if you play it loud and low enough. I have a B-15S which is a 60 watt version with the same type of cab except bigger with a D-140 in it and also could be overdriven but at a really loud volume with a lot of bottom on the amp, you just need to be cognizant of that just like we did years ago. I wonder what those cabs are tuned for? I like them though.
 
Clarity re Overdrive:

I like - maybe love - overdrive ... the 421 does that brilliantly. Dig up "5-to-1" by The Doors and that's what it's capable of ... Certainly not on "every tune" - I have other amps for that play the nice bass sound - but when called for, crank the volume and the 421 goes ...

here:

I just also want the mid-clarity ... and also no farting.
 
The smarter folks (and I mean that with all due respect) will tell you it's a crapshoot until you do the proper
"modelling" using the T/S parameters of various drivers, and they would be totally correct. That said, in my own personal speaker-swapping experience, I've cpme to prefer the Beta-15 over the Delta. It dounds smooither and more rounded to my ear. Spec-wise, the Beta has a smidge more xmax and goes a couple hertz lpwer. But any speaker can be made to fart out if pushed betond its design.
 
I hear you, but am locked into a cabinet design - the original - built MAYBE before T/S parameters were created

I get that, and understand completely. That's why I said what I did. To elaborate, the Beta has always sounded better than the Delta to me, regardless of the box I've put them in, T/S parameters be damned. The only downside, if you want to call it that, is that the Betas are rated at 300w/rms, while the Deltas are 400w/rms,but you and I kmow that doesn't mean much in the real world.
 
I hear you, but am locked into a cabinet design - the original - built MAYBE before T/S parameters were created

Correct.
I personally have not had the ability to calculate the port frequency of the earlier classic porta flex cabinets.

As far as volume, that is easily done. And the volume is suitable for most 15" drivers. Far as I can tell it's a realatively small volume. Which in general gives you more power handling.
Usually the issue would be, some drivers tend to prefer larger volumes. And if put in a smaller box they tend to be boomy. Or there is a big response peak in some frequencies around 60 to 100 hz. So some describe certain notes on the bass
" blooming"

According to modeling. Even a delta and beta need larger airspace and would bloom and boom in a typical early porta flex. But it seems to not even be a complaint with deltas or betas.

You should get at least 50 to 80 watts into a delta before it started farting out. With the typical 3mm to 4mm xmax.

But here we are. It's farting out with lower wattage.

I believe but can't confirm these earlier boxes are possible grossly high tuned around 60 to 80 hz. So anything below that port tuning would cause massive come excursion, or farting out. It's just how a reflex or ported box works.

So even standard E or A could push a speaker pretty far especially drop D

There is very few speakers that would work in a high tuned box. But I know a
D-130 in a modeling alignment shows a ridiculous high tune around 75hz for normal common Butterworth alignments.
Even JBL didn't use such absurd high tune. But mechanical wise to match the speaker to a alighnments you'd never use. It is high around 75hz.

Likewise the EV15L would not align to such a high tune. But it behaves somewhat similar to the JBL

This doesn't mean they wouldn't fart out. High tune is high tune.

In general my gut tells me a JBL D-130 K-140 or EV15L or Even the higher Fs Black Widows designed for Guitar. Would possibly sound better in a higher tuned cab. Could possibly be less or same fart factors.

It be nice to actually know what the cabinet tune is. Likewise difficult to recommend blocking some of the cutouts. This would lower the tuning.

Far as drivers that won't bloom in smaller boxes. EV15L , D130 or a Eminence Neo
Deltalite II 2515 is a 15" that does well in a smaller box and is a 5mm driver for Xmax. And in theory should not fart as soon as the 3mm delta.

Also would work in a sealed box. Not sure if anyone has tried sealing the ports completely on the older cabs. Or attempt to lower tuning by blocking a few ports.

The Black Widow 1501DT and 1502DT are famous for pedal steel guitars and pa systems not JBL copies but follow the design concept. Probably very good candidates for tone and power handling.
 
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Clarity re Overdrive:

I like - maybe love - overdrive ... the 421 does that brilliantly. Dig up "5-to-1" by The Doors and that's what it's capable of ... Certainly not on "every tune" - I have other amps for that play the nice bass sound - but when called for, crank the volume and the 421 goes ...

here:

I just also want the mid-clarity ... and also no farting.



That is not speaker distortion, it's amp distortion, if your speaker is distorting, it's a scream for help.
 
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Within reason, I agree ... the point being perhaps, with the 421 I can drive the amp to that level and not feel like I'm hurting anything ... but when the other speakers fart, seems there's gonna be some expensive damage.

Agree?


Well yeah, if you want a dirty sound you overdrive your power tubes, you should never push speakers beyond what they're capable of doing. I would be willing to bet that in that song it's an old fashioned fuzz box, there's not bottom and that's what they did.
 
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I tried a Eminence Delta 15 in my B-15 (1968, all octal tubes, single baffle) ... and while it had the "tone", it farted out on the low notes. I play in standard "D" so maybe that extra step down is the reason, but I'll be sending it back to Parts-Express.

I had tried the D140, but found it - maybe too sweet (?) plus it farted too.

I almost REALLY love the Altec 421 - a true ROCK set-up ... but it's just a bit muddy, like a blanket over the cab.

I've read there's a Faital (?) .. any better ideas?

https://usspeaker.com/faital pro index-1.htm#15 inch speakers
When is the last time you changed the filter caps? Tired filter caps replacement (also change bias cap) will give you much better headroom, as will strong fresh power tubes.
 
When is the last time you ...

Good Q. They - or something - just "broke". During my recently speaker rolls, the amp picked up a noticeable hum - I assume these two things are unrelated, but ya never know (certainly I don't!).

I bought this amp - "George" - from the guy who wrote the book (below), who is also a real world friend. The amp is completely original, including the speaker and the two-wire power cord. The tubes, of course are not - they were JJ's. I assume the filter (and other) caps have been updated although I've not been "inside". The amp was a regular player for decades on the local circuit.

That said ... I just "sent" the head off to my tech, who happens to be a few blocks away, so "sent" means plopped on the car seat for a 5 minute drive. He is highly qualified, and has done other custom work for me. I gave him a couple red base 5691's to upgrade the critical 6SL7's, and also some matched GE 6L6's. It'll come back right.

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I’ve heard positive reports of using the Faital in a B-15 Thiele cabinet. Whatever speaker you select, make sure that it fits in the cab with the head flipped.

Be sure that the farting is not the amp. Low notes stress the power supply more, it is possible that the amp is running out of headroom and farting because of this. I would be best to have the tech test the amp with a different cab (not a B-15) while you are playing.
 
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JJ's in the preamp? There's your first mistake :D Replacing them with the older tubes you have is going to be a big help. Knowing that, I'd go back and try that Delta again once you get your amp fixed and good tubes put in.
 
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Good Q. They - or something - just "broke". During my recently speaker rolls, the amp picked up a noticeable hum - I assume these two things are unrelated, but ya never know (certainly I don't!).

I bought this amp - "George" - from the guy who wrote the book (below), who is also a real world friend. The amp is completely original, including the speaker and the two-wire power cord. The tubes, of course are not - they were JJ's. I assume the filter (and other) caps have been updated although I've not been "inside". The amp was a regular player for decades on the local circuit.

That said ... I just "sent" the head off to my tech, who happens to be a few blocks away, so "sent" means plopped on the car seat for a 5 minute drive. He is highly qualified, and has done other custom work for me. I gave him a couple red base 5691's to upgrade the critical 6SL7's, and also some matched GE 6L6's. It'll come back right.

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You must be talking about Greg Hopkins--great guy. He and Jess Oliver came over to my house for supper during NAMM back when Jess was still able to go out and about. Greg will help you get your B15 going if you need his help. Tell him Keith Rosier sends his regards. Jess recommended closely matched power tubes to keep the hum down, and changing the filter caps was something he would do when going through one of these. Here is a 1963 prototype for the Ampeg B18. It is either the first or second B18 ever produced--note the rare uncovered/unpotted transformers painted black by Ampeg. Jess said this and the other prototype were sold because Ampeg needed the money to make payroll/bills. I have the matching cab and original speaker. Jess went all through this head, and an adjustable bias trim for each power tube was added along with a record out post power tubes replaces the hum balance jack. It's mounted in this case as it's part of my session rig for recording direct and using with a power amp if needed.
 

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