I see you touched gloves hodgy, good man. 
We (I pretty sure I can type we) really do appreciate your posting here.
We (I pretty sure I can type we) really do appreciate your posting here.
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Another Red Flag On The Ampeg PF-500.....
- Thread starter shoot-r
- Start date
Really well put Ptown...
I can only think how different these threads would read if they just fixed the remaining failures under an extended warranty/good will policy.
I see you touched gloves hodgy, good man.
We (I pretty sure I can type we) really do appreciate your posting here.
I certainly do. And all that stuff wasn't supposed to be personal...more of railing against "The Company".
Ampeg could make this their "Forget New Coke, buy Classic Coke" moment if they played it right. Would cost them a lot of money up front, of course. But what do I know. I'm just a guy who reads these threads and crosses his fingers whenever I get on a stage with this great-sounding but suspicious amp.
Thing is, these amps sound great when they work. Ampeg knows the sound that sells Ampegs and these have it. They just need to find where that line is between cutting costs and having people swear by Ampegs.
Yup, they sound great. And the fliptop thing is a really cool bonus to boot. Being able to stash cables, powerstrips, and a guitar stand inside the cab is awesome. I just want to trust it, too.
My drummer's dad plays bass in a classic rock band and he has used a pf500 with two pf cabs for a year or two with no problems. He has now upgraded to the pf800. I've been considering that, and keep the 500 as a backup, but all this doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about Ampeg's solid state Portaflexes.
I really don't have any dog in this fight, but I do think Ampeg needs to do something about this PF issue. They aren't doing themselves any service by allowing this much commotion to continuously surround this line of amps.
I'm just an "old school dude" when it comes to this stuff I guess. I don't consider 2,3,4 years to be worth a damn as far as judging reliability. If it fails for any reason in that amount of time, it's crap....along the lines of the lower level Behringers. I won't know if they're actually good or not until 2023 or 2033.
Well my PF800 handled another loud rehearsal like a champ. I think it seems to be proving itself as reliable.
From what I can tell, Ampeg hasn't shirked any of its responsibilities to repair or replace defective products that were covered under warranty. Seems people here are unreasonably expecting support for products outside of warranty.
No company is going to fix their products for free outside of the warranty!
If the hypothesis is that the products were not of merchantable quality to begin with, then go to consumer affairs. They will help out if the hypothesis is legit.
From what I can tell, Ampeg hasn't shirked any of its responsibilities to repair or replace defective products that were covered under warranty. Seems people here are unreasonably expecting support for products outside of warranty.
No company is going to fix their products for free outside of the warranty!
If the hypothesis is that the products were not of merchantable quality to begin with, then go to consumer affairs. They will help out if the hypothesis is legit.
If you think an amplifier not lasting as long as it takes my kid to grow up still qualifies as reliable, I guess we just have different ideas of what "reliable" is. A symptom of the new "planned obsolete", "designed to fail within a certain amount of time", "throw it away and get another one", mentality I suppose. You people aren't 1/100th as "green" as your grandparents were, despite how righteous you think you are.
+1000
No one has proven my assertion wrong that the problems that are being complained about were tied entirely with rev. C which was superseded by rev. D in December 2011. That was a whole 11 months after NAMM 2011, when the public got their first official look at it.
If they spent the time needed to fight the detractors on TB they'd need to add even more to the mark-up on the products to hire and train the staff they'd need.
Welcome to the world of digital solid-state where there are "no user serviceable parts inside" just remember, those 'vacuum-state', thermionic based products were not designed to run for 30 years, they were just simple so failures were minimal, there were planned component changes, and maintenance was easy.
I dunno man, if you look at the build and part quality I would argue they were designed to last at least 15+ years... Tube devices (edit; well designed, good quality) were always designed with the tubes themselves being user replaceable, as those parts were known/expected to fail...
My Trace is nearly 20 years going strong apart from when my dumbarse plugged the speaker into footswitch and popped the preamp voltage regulator, cheap fix. The only thing that can slow it down is I believe the IC chips for the compressors have sold out.
Part of the problem for owners of failed PF-500s may be the nature of the modern electronics components that are available to the designer. This is not limited to the PF-500, and circuits that perform essentially the same function abound in the market. I don't see any unusual components in the circuit, and so I wonder if the failures are caused by the design, or by some unforeseen quirk of a component that is usually reliable in other designs, but is not tolerant of some unforeseen conditions that occur under certain states of operation the PF-500 may encounter. I assume that loud has analyzed failed units, and has some knowledge of what components may have been found to have failed, or what circuit design changes were made to improve reliability. I would appreciate it if Loud would help the people who buy their products by telling us owners of early units if there is anything we can do to improve the reliability of our amps. I invite Loud, and Mark Graham in particular, to ask a design engineer who understands the theory of operation, and who is familiar with the failures, and engineering change history to help us make sure we will have continued confidence in their products. Come on, I love you guys. I love my Loud Tech equipment, (like the various Ampeg, and Mackie brand products, bought new, retail in the last year). Please don't force me to rely 100% on only vintage, used Ampeg gear. You guys have to eat too, so keep me coming back to buy new stuff, (perhaps a pair of SVT212AVs for my 1967 B-12XTC).
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/mark-graham/6/254/827
I used to have a corporate email account, and if Loud tech uses the same method of creating email addresses that we did, you might be able to contact the CEO of Loud Tech here: [email protected]
Give it a try if you want to ask Mr. Graham a question.
I used to have a corporate email account, and if Loud tech uses the same method of creating email addresses that we did, you might be able to contact the CEO of Loud Tech here: [email protected]
Give it a try if you want to ask Mr. Graham a question.
Other than the assertion about expected useful life, my point exactly and the warning that I quoted (tongue in cheek) has been on gear, without tubes, since the 1950s to warn the user that there were no tubes to change.
One could actually say the parts today are better than ever (but there are a lot more of them in the product) but the real issue with solid-state is the relative intolerance to incorrect environmental conditions (and when failing releasing the dreaded magic smoke). For physically fragile devices, tubes are remarkably durable in use, tolerating amazingly poor environmental conditions, whereas the physically strong SS devices give up fairly easily when the conditions aren't right.
I don't have anything to add to the LOUD blast-a-thon (or not - depending on which way you look at it) - I just wanted to give a slight update on my PF800 experience from what I had chimed in earlier in this thread with, and also because I don't want to be responsible for bad press on an item that I may end up being happy with after spending more time with it.
I've been playing it at home with my OBC115 (after some gear issues and a fault light during a show made me think it was a failure), and it's sounding pretty awesome, honestly. I've been purposefully trying to clip the preamp and see how it handles, throwing gain stages at it, and I haven't gotten it to crap out. I'll get to really test it this weekend in full band mode for some time- but my negativity has definitely ebbed a bit at this point and turned into a general excitement to give this thing a second chance.
Though, I do have a question that goes to other TB'ers who said that the FAULT light flashing on was normal operation upon powering up in the PF. Is this wrong? It definitely gave me a brief fault light on stage at some point in my mid-set-gear-panic, but it hasn't flashed on in standard power up yet. What's the deal?
I've been playing it at home with my OBC115 (after some gear issues and a fault light during a show made me think it was a failure), and it's sounding pretty awesome, honestly. I've been purposefully trying to clip the preamp and see how it handles, throwing gain stages at it, and I haven't gotten it to crap out. I'll get to really test it this weekend in full band mode for some time- but my negativity has definitely ebbed a bit at this point and turned into a general excitement to give this thing a second chance.
Though, I do have a question that goes to other TB'ers who said that the FAULT light flashing on was normal operation upon powering up in the PF. Is this wrong? It definitely gave me a brief fault light on stage at some point in my mid-set-gear-panic, but it hasn't flashed on in standard power up yet. What's the deal?
P-oddz. I am only saying this from memory because my PF-500 is not in front of me to verify it, but I think that when you first turn it on, you see an amber LED illuminated on the right end of the control panel, and (if I recall correctly), it goes green after a few seconds. I'll take a look at the schematic to verify this, and report back.
A couple years of revisions to amp that had some issues isnt going to sink the ship that is Ampeg. No matter how much QQ is on this webiste, that maybe 25% of the bass playing population knows about.
This droaning on and on about the issues with the PF500 are quite stale.. The reason to buy something new is for the warantee. The point of buying used is to save some cash right? Shouldnt it be known through personal research what the said companys warantee policys are before hand? Expecting a piece of electronic equipment to last 30 years is another discussion all together.
I understand people are frustrated, but whining about it and taking stabs at the employees isnt going to get anyone anywhere. It has been said many times here, voice your opinions with your dollars. If you dont agree with how Loud is handleing their affairs spend your money else where. Complain to Loud. Let them know.. Then buy another brand of bass amplifier and move on.
Another option is merely to keep looking for empathy on a forum of strangers, hopeing someday.... something will be done!! and you can be a hero!
/smh
@ P-oddz: Yes the fault light should pop on momentarily when you power up the amp.
This droaning on and on about the issues with the PF500 are quite stale.. The reason to buy something new is for the warantee. The point of buying used is to save some cash right? Shouldnt it be known through personal research what the said companys warantee policys are before hand? Expecting a piece of electronic equipment to last 30 years is another discussion all together.
I understand people are frustrated, but whining about it and taking stabs at the employees isnt going to get anyone anywhere. It has been said many times here, voice your opinions with your dollars. If you dont agree with how Loud is handleing their affairs spend your money else where. Complain to Loud. Let them know.. Then buy another brand of bass amplifier and move on.
Another option is merely to keep looking for empathy on a forum of strangers, hopeing someday.... something will be done!! and you can be a hero!
/smh
@ P-oddz: Yes the fault light should pop on momentarily when you power up the amp.
Jheake, I own a lot of amps, (a lot of them are Ampegs), but I also own SS amps that are nearly forty years old, and they still work as good, (or bad,) as when I bought them new decades ago. I don't think it is too much to expect Loud Tech amps to continue to function long after the warranty has expired. I do think that a little pressure is warranted to see if the corporation has the ability to be responsible to the people who spend money on their products. I have been involved in the design and manufacture of high tech electronics since 1976, and I have been involved in programs to reduce warranty costs, and increase customer satisfaction for complex electronics systems, and it is difficult at times, but when you face reality, and accept responsibility for customer satisfaction, you end up stronger after the initial pain. If my PF-500 failed today, and I could not fix it myself, I would throw it away, and my opinion of Loud Tech, would be diminished. They would of course carry on as a successful business without me, but I know from experience that it is easier/cheaper to keep a satisfied customer, than it is to gain a new one.
