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Another Red Flag On The Ampeg PF-500.....

#561
An endorsement deal means that you have a business relationship with a company. There are many levels of endorsement. Financial details are usually kept between the endorser and the company.

For most people, having an endorsement means being able to buy directly from the company at a list price discount. The amount of the discount varies depending on who you are. You also have a direct line to an artist rep who can answer questions and offer assistance. For example, if you are on the road and need some gear, they might be able to help. A high level endorser can also be paid. They might represent the company by appearing in advertisements, making personal appearances or performing at trade shows, clinics, and ever music stores. Endorsers are people who wholeheartedly believe in the product and indirectly help bring visibility to the brand. Everybody who goes on stage with any gear, be it an amp or an instrument does that.

You can apply to be an endorser. A company will expect you to use their products, you fill out an application, submit a demo CD or video to show that you can play, and provide a list of gigs. Much like trying to get a record deal. It also helps if you look good. :p
 
#565
beans-on-toast said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. He appeals to the group that likes to appear on stage in their under pants. And maybe those that do a lot of charity work in the performing arts community.
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Can't deny the guys stage presence that's for sure. :p

I've also heard those guys do a good bit of charitable work, etc. which is pretty cool. Beats sitting back and snorting your millions.
 
#567
JimmyM said:
Yeah, I get a discount. Now. Been an endorser for two years but I've used Ampeg amps since 1978. And they asked me. I didn't and still don't go around begging for endorsements. This notion of people with endorsements playing stuff they don't like just because they get a discount is ridiculous. Life's way too short to play crap gear just because of a discount.
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This is the big misunderstanding that a few endorsers have on this site. No one would suggest that you are playing something you don't like for 'money or discounts'. Of course, that would be silly unless you were so broke you couldn't afford anything.

However, having a formal relationship with a company results in being a brand embassador, which means you are a brand booster.

I would doubt you would be so vocal in supporting this product if you weren't an endorser, since you tend to savage other brands that have issues or whatever.

Again, no big deal, but it still amazes me that you confuse 'liking the brand' with being an active and 'by definitiion' biased booster of the brand. There is nothing wrong AT ALL with being a booster and cheerleader for a brand, but IMO it gives very little useful information to those on Talkbass regarding the performance of one piece of gear versus the other.

Old, old topic, but seemingly still not understood (i.e., that 'liking the brand before becoming an endorser is a given, and means nothing to the issue being raised here).

Just FYI. Doesn't mean you aren't a good person, but the conflict of interest does put you in a difficult position when discussing problems with the brand you are associated with.
 
#569
At the risk of stepping in it, I don't think the issue is about any specific endorser's comments or actions. JimmyM's comments and information are among the best on this site and is part of the reason why I joined and continue to enjoy it daily.

It's more about the existence of the relationship being taken into account when any endorser comments on the product or company they endorse, whatever the level of compensation the endorser receives. Readers should understand that an endorser endorses - it's what they do.

That said, I've been heavily influenced in my gear purchase processes by JimmyM because he knows what he's talking about and his advice is often very good. I've very frankly taken into account his relationship with Ampeg but in the end, I listen to what he has to say because of what he says, and not who he says it for.
 
#570
KJung said:
This is the big misunderstanding that a few endorsers have on this site. No one would suggest that you are playing something you don't like for 'money or discounts'. Of course, that would be silly unless you were so broke you couldn't afford anything.

However, having a formal relationship with a company results in being a brand embassador, which means you are a brand booster.

I would doubt you would be so vocal in supporting this product if you weren't an endorser, since you tend to savage other brands that have issues or whatever.
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Whatever. I'm also very complimentary to non-Ampeg amps I like. So let's keep a little perspective.

Again, no big deal, but it still amazes me that you confuse 'liking the brand' with being an active and 'by definitiion' biased booster of the brand. There is nothing wrong AT ALL with being a booster and cheerleader for a brand, but IMO it gives very little useful information to those on Talkbass regarding the performance of one piece of gear versus the other.
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Ask the countless people who have asked me for advice on not only Ampeg but other types of amps if they feel that way.

Old, old topic, but seemingly still not understood (i.e., that 'liking the brand before becoming an endorser is a given, and means nothing to the issue being raised here).

Just FYI. Doesn't mean you aren't a good person, but the conflict of interest does put you in a difficult position when discussing problems with the brand you are associated with.
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It does? Hasn't stopped me from saying how I don't care for a couple current Ampeg products. Entirely projection on your part.

And thanks for getting it, Fishhead and Smoot.
 
#571
Just as an aside, I do remember Jimmy being very complimentary about the Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0's. a couple of times. As long as their affiliations are visible alongside their names I'm generally ok, with the folks who get professional consideration and compensation. That said, I've run across a few folks who are endorses that aren't disclosing their affiliations, but you can usually figure it out.
 
#572
Ric Vice said:
Just as an aside, I do remember Jimmy being very complimentary about the Genz Benz Shuttle 3.0's. a couple of times. As long as their affiliations are visible alongside their names I'm generally ok, with the folks who get professional consideration and compensation. That said, I've run across a few folks who are endorses that aren't disclosing their affiliations, but you can usually figure it out.
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I agree most endorsers behave pretty well on this site:smug:
 
#575
B-string said:
How do you differentiate enthusiasm from endorsement?
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Compensated or not, and also not under ANY sort of obligation to ALWAYS speak highly of a given brand, and also to be able to actually recommend different brands to different players based on tonal needs, etc. HUGE difference.

This site is all about 'no strings attached' reviews and recommendations. Everyone has favorites and not favorites, of course, but when you are tied to a brand, that definitely changes things (and also is why the site requires any endorsements be listed). Of course, my guess is, some of the youngsters on this site don't really understand that 'built in bias' and compensation issue, but I guess that isn't exactly an issue compared to world hunger:p
 
#578
B-string said:
How do you differentiate enthusiasm from endorsement?
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That's complicated.

I tend to accept comments from a professional using a product in the field more than I do from a marketing representative whose job depends on it.

If you are enthusiastic about a product, you sing its praises and endorse it. An endorsee is someone whom a company wants representing them in the field. An endorsee is an endorser but an endorser doesn't have to be an endorsee.

On the other hand, a stock holder would enthusiastically endorse a company whether or not they like the product. That's another ball of wax.
 

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