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Anti Tweeter?

#23
JimmyM said:
Newer SVT 810E cabs would do that. But the older ones sound awesome, even if they don't handle 1000w (like anyone needs it...sheesh!).
Click to expand...

Depends on the sound you want, IMO/IME.


I don't love my 810e, but it gets the job done and I don't have cash to fork out for an Aggie GS412.

For the price I paid for mine and the position I was in when I bought it,

It couldn't have been better!
:eek:


Okay, it could've... still. :p
 
#24
My Carvin has a tweeter; but I turn it down when playing bass. However, when I set the EQ flat and crank up the attenuator on the back, the amp sounds great for acoustic guitar or keyboards. It's nice not having to own a separate amp for each axe, and since I can't play them all at the same time anyway...
 
#26
Greetings from the North,

Yes grandchild.....it was a time when bass cabs had tweeters and they wrapped them in hideous rat fur with no shame. They tried to turn them off but the powers that be wouldn't let them..... Although some could be turned down, but still.... you could hear their faint cries of tweet tweet-clickity click....

Rezdog
 
#28
I always kind of chuckle at this topic. It's all pure personal taste, and I never can figure out the animosity toward people who like tweeters in their cabs by those who don't.

I prefer a backline tone that sounds similar to my bass directly through a PA. Since I like a full, clean tone representing the entire range of my instrument, I prefer a cab with a nice full range driver and a well designed tweeter crossed over relatively high.

I use a bright, grindy sounding instrument (bassically a J Bass with single coils), and I like new stainless steel roundwound strings. Most of the people who hear my bass live love the tone.

I have bassist peers and friends who use old flatwounds on their PBass through sealed one-way multi driver cabs driven by tube amps. That tone sounds great also in the right context.

For those of you who like a more vintage tone without that extended high end, relax... you are OK. You don't have to yell at those of us who prefer another tone:smug::cool::hiding:
 
#29
KJung. That's the kind of rational analysis that takes all the steam out of a thread like this. Knock it off. I'd like to hear more from players who feel that tweeters really suck. So if you don't like that twangy, thin, banjo-sounding, guitar wannabe, electrified ukelele sound from a bass, now is your chance to let it out. You'll feel better. I know I do whenever I read a thread like this. :D
 
#30
This thread should be called "How to not be in the mix", I speak to Front of House mixers all the time about bass sounds and the most common causes of complaint are,

1) the bass sound is a waffling ugly wall of atonal mud.
2) the bass player has eq'ed way too much top end/bottom end into his sound and it's a distorted farty or shrill load of rubbish.

To remedy this situation the FOH guy will, completely bypass your $5000 dollars worth of boutique bass rig with it's purpose built DI output and insert a $50 Behringer DI Box, and/or simply pull you out of the mix altogether.

The main reason why so many inexperienced bass players pull such unusable tones is because thier bass rigs are set up without regard to the idea that the front of house system operates across all frequencies.

You may choose to just monitor yourself onstage through a single 18" cab but in the front of house you will be producing a full range of frequencies you will not even be able to hear. Similarly and far more commonly is the 4 x 10" cab farting away with a mountain of bottom end eq'ed into the signal which the cabinet is struggling to reproduce. To draw an analagy, it's akin to performing brain surgery wearing boxing gloves whilst peering through binoculars.

The reason why the modern bass rig has evolved away from being a glorified guitar amp is that many wise and vastly experienced bass players who design bass equipment realised (probably before most of you were born) that the ideal bass rig needed to give the professional bassist a sound which would allow him to monitor his output both to the stage and
FOH and Recording Console!!!

For these reasons modern bass cabinets produce a full range sound which includes top end frequencies produced by compression drivers, or dual concentric drivers as well as combinations of regular speakers.

If you have the balls, plug your ipod into your bass rig and have a listen, as Jonas Hellborg states (Bass Player Mag Sept 2007)"... Try playing your favourite CD through a regular bass amp and you'll hear how ****** it sounds". Jonas goes on to say "I beleive a bass amp has to be audiophile quality", and that "...the best result is in huge studio monitors".

Now I'm not saying we should all run out and buy studio monitors or a Hellborg rig but I will say that if you expect to be taken seriously as a bass player your rig should have bass, middle and treble in judicious and musical levels.

For these reasons practically every professional level bass cabinet has a bullet tweeter.
 
#32
The next time you are in the studio try this. Take one of your favorite rock mixes. Pick something with a conventional bass track, no slapping or popping. Listen through it two or three times. Now filter out everything above 5000 hz on the bass track. A 24db cut will work. Listen again to the full mix. Can you tell the difference? Over the years I have done this with a blind A/B comparison for a dozen studio engineers. Only one of them could tell the difference. Does it mean that everything in a bass track over 5000 hz is irrevelent. Probably not. But it sure demonstrates where your 10,000 hz tweeter fits into the big picture. As for the "mud" in a live performance, in many cases it's not the bass. It's caused by the microphone on the kick drum. Especially if the drummer has a busy foot and the soundman likes to watch the cones flapping back and forth on the subwoofers.
 
#33
JB696 said:
The next time you are in the studio try this. Take one of your favorite rock mixes. Pick something with a conventional bass track, no slapping or popping. Listen through it two or three times. Now filter out everything above 5000 hz on the bass track. A 24db cut will work. Listen again to the full mix. Can you tell the difference? Over the years I have done this with a blind A/B comparison for a dozen studio engineers. Only one of them could tell the difference. Does it mean that everything in a bass track over 5000 hz is irrevelent. Probably not. But it sure demonstrates where your 10,000 hz tweeter fits into the big picture. As for the "mud" in a live performance, in many cases it's not the bass. It's caused by the microphone on the kick drum. Especially if the drummer has a busy foot and the soundman likes to watch the cones flapping back and forth on the subwoofers.
Click to expand...

Most tweeters seem to be crossed over around 3K or so, and most drivers fall off below that. It's not just about 5K+ sizzle, although that can be a beautiful sound in some contexts.

A well designed crossover and tweeter, like in the new TecAmp cabs or Epifani cabs, can provide a nice, natural, subtle extension up above 2K or so that really sounds beautiful and natural (again, for some basses, using bright roundwounds, for certain playing styles).

Cabs with those little mid drivers are a nice 'in-between' solution for those that don't need the full extension of a classic horn type tweeter but want a little more upper mid definition than the upper range of most drivers can supply.

That being said, I agree that there is NOTHING worse than a cheap crossover and harsh sounding tweeter in a cheap box. But, that's just poor execution.

I again never could figure out why those of us who use and love two and three way cabs can understand those that don't, and it doesn't happen the other way around. Strange to me:confused: The only think I can think of is that the players who are attracted to a more vintage sound, in general, aren't really aware of players like Anthony Jackson, Richard Bona, Lincoln Goines, John Patitucci, Nathan East, Jimmy Johnson, Victor Wooten, etc., etc., etc., all of whom use some sort of two or three way cab with tweeter as backline.

I guess following up on that point, if your only experience with two way cabs is an SWR Workingman's 410, or something like that, I would hate tweeters also:D
 
#35
Tweeters......Love 'em or hate 'em...I think a bassist should know what is going to the soundman (tone wise). If your tweeter'less cab doesn't go any higher than 3k, you're missing the entire sonic picture. The PA mains will produce those highs...up to 18k...20k..
I've seen a bassist using a single 15" for a cab....he was boosting a heafty amount of treble on his amp & had it pegged on his active bass. It was an Alembic, so, we're probably talking around 10k for the treble center frequency. His tone, on stage, was pretty nice. Out front was the most piercing, nails for tone I've ever been hit with (in a bad way). The sound man couldn't roll off enough top end because of all of the high end boosting going on from stage. Had that bassist been using a tweeter-loaded cab, he would have heard the copious amounts of treble & probably flattened it out/ maintain some clarity in his stage tone. I think tweeters are a good thing.
 
#36
I'm now a huge fan of Phil Jones Bass stuff after purchasing a 4B cab to go with my Warwick Profet head. The use of the 5 inch drivers give a nice even sound over bass , mid, and highs and good fast attack rate. Not to mention the cab is tiny and really packs a punch for its size. I'm a firm believer now that less is more.
 
#37
JB696 said:
A bass needs a tweeter about as much as a duck needs an accordian.
Click to expand...

Yeah, a bass doesn't need a tweeter, but a bass cabinet might need a tweeter. And leave accordian playing ducks out of this!

:hiding:

:D

In all seriousness, ANY bass cabinet that has a tweeter should also have an off or attenuation switch for it to make that cabinet more flexible/desireable to a wider array of players, knowing some will like tweeters, and some won't. Seems common sense to me.

I have two Bag End cabinets, one of which with a coaxial tweeter (tweeter as a part of one of the speakers), as opposed to a separate tweeter. I'm not sure how/if an off/attenuation switch would be possible in this case....
 
#38
Cool discussion. I guess I always play with my tweeter nearly off, and, to be honest, kind of wished that Markbass -- the cabinets I use -- had more tweeterless options, besides the Jeff Berlin combo. The only time I use one a little more than that is when I'm playing my Rhodes through my bass amp -- something I've been doing since I realized that my Roland amp basically had its tweeter on full blast, and that I can't change that.
 
#39
:p Amusing topic to me everytime it comes up

I have a client that uses two 2x10 cabs with tweeters in each ... WHY? :eek: because it gives him the kind of sound he needs for accurate reproduction of his bass!

Who would need that you ask? Joe Fick plays Rock-A-Billy slap bass on an Englehart Swingmaster. I have others that order the cabs sans tweeters all together.


:smug: ... Comes down to what you need to get your sound
 

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