Let me start by stating that I am not a bassist and would like to provide some context for my question. My son is a rising junior in HS and hoping to attend one of the top performance programs when he graduates in 2 years. He started attending a performing arts boarding school on a scholarship last year. My problem is that his academic grades dropped when he transferred which is stressing me out to the point I considered moving him back. If he were to graduate from the school he started high school at then he would have full tuition payed for any in-state school provided he has the GPA needed (there is no performance program in our state). His dropping GPA scares me because I'm a public school teacher and can't afford to pay out of state tuition and don't want want him taking on a monstrous amount of debt. The school is telling me that his whole college admission process will be dependent on his audition. I say that's all well and good but then he will need the scholarship money to pay for it. Then they tell me if he's admitted the money will be there. So, for those of you that attended a top performance program, Jacob's, Shepard, USC, Colburn, etc.: Once you got in how generous were they with financial aide? Also, how much did your academic grades play a part in that aide? I've been told by some very well respected bass pedagogues that he has the talent and work ethic to make it but, I've spent the bulk of my career helping kids get into schools like GaTech and MIT and know nothing of how music and performance programs work or how to pay for them. I feel like I have a disability because I have no way of knowing how good he is except by what people tell me.
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How did you pay for your performance degree?
- Thread starter Randy Archer
- Start date
I’m a jazz bass and music theory professor at a music school that is part of a state university. There seem to be two questions in this thread:
1) I paid for my undergraduate degree (Theory/Composition) with a combination of financial aid (national and state), a modest scholarship based on my composition portfolio, and paid for the rest out of pocket by working part time during the school year and full time during the summers. My family didn't have money, so I did most of my Gen Ed classes at the local community college, then spent a year at Berklee where I worked multiple jobs while going to school and not sleeping much, then finished at the same state school where I now teach. For my Masters degree, I worked and took out student loans. The whole process took 10 years, 8 of it to complete undergrad while working, but that included an instrument and major change in the process.
2) I will be entering my 32nd year of collegiate teaching this year. In my experience at my school, students pay for their degrees in a combination of ways. If the student has a strong academic record, they will usually receive state scholarship funding tied to the strength of their academic record. If they have a high SAT/ACT score, there is often state funding that rewards that as well, with the amount on a scale related to the score above a certain point. When a student comes in to audition, the faculty are already aware of the academic funding the student has been awarded. Based on the student's audition combined with the needs of the school in question, the auditioning faculty may award a music scholarship which stacks on top of the academic funding the student already has. Different schools have different amounts of endowed funding, so it's hard to say beyond that how the process works at different places, but this is the general model in my experience.
If the student plays an instrument that is a high priority for the institution based on their ensemble and studio needs at the time of the audition, that works in the student's favor. Hence the perpetual jokes about it being easy for good oboists and bassoonists to get scholarships, because their skill set is relatively rare and ensembles require these positions be filled. Obviously, given all of the above, the stronger the audition, the better the chance of a healthy music scholarship.
1) I paid for my undergraduate degree (Theory/Composition) with a combination of financial aid (national and state), a modest scholarship based on my composition portfolio, and paid for the rest out of pocket by working part time during the school year and full time during the summers. My family didn't have money, so I did most of my Gen Ed classes at the local community college, then spent a year at Berklee where I worked multiple jobs while going to school and not sleeping much, then finished at the same state school where I now teach. For my Masters degree, I worked and took out student loans. The whole process took 10 years, 8 of it to complete undergrad while working, but that included an instrument and major change in the process.
2) I will be entering my 32nd year of collegiate teaching this year. In my experience at my school, students pay for their degrees in a combination of ways. If the student has a strong academic record, they will usually receive state scholarship funding tied to the strength of their academic record. If they have a high SAT/ACT score, there is often state funding that rewards that as well, with the amount on a scale related to the score above a certain point. When a student comes in to audition, the faculty are already aware of the academic funding the student has been awarded. Based on the student's audition combined with the needs of the school in question, the auditioning faculty may award a music scholarship which stacks on top of the academic funding the student already has. Different schools have different amounts of endowed funding, so it's hard to say beyond that how the process works at different places, but this is the general model in my experience.
If the student plays an instrument that is a high priority for the institution based on their ensemble and studio needs at the time of the audition, that works in the student's favor. Hence the perpetual jokes about it being easy for good oboists and bassoonists to get scholarships, because their skill set is relatively rare and ensembles require these positions be filled. Obviously, given all of the above, the stronger the audition, the better the chance of a healthy music scholarship.
Great story, Professor Chris. I would like to please ask, perhaps the ‘elephant in the room’ question: how have your students fared? What are they doing, and what do you think the future holds for the program?
Thanks.
The only caution I would offer, based on talking to a lot of "music parents," is to get it from the horse's mouth at each college. For instance, the admissions office doesn't know the policies of the music department.
The college I went to, all the advice I could get from the admissions department was that it might be better for everybody if I left my bass at home. I brought it.
The people who really know what the music department can offer, are in the music department. And they're happy to talk with you.
The other thing I learned is that a college has to be a certain size to field a full orchestra. When we visited some really tiny 4-year colleges, the orchestra was some partnership with another college, across town, or something of that nature.
Each student is different. I think they are faring well. I have some 25+ student recital programs framed on my office wall, and to my knowledge all of my graduates are still playing. Three are teaching at universities in Brazil, and two are tenured faculty at schools in the states. Another several are teaching adjunct gigs at several schools and playing on the side. One is retired from being a music director on a cruise line. Another is playing musicals and working at a string shop in the daytime. Another is a music therapist, and there’s a church music director in there as well.
But the definition of “success” is also subjective in this consumer driven world of metrics, where the value of anything is expressed in dollars rather than quality. “How many units did X sell?” seems to be how our society gauges value, but it’s not how art or artists gauge value. I’m not at all sure that any art form should be judged in this way, or that musicians should go into music thinking that the only measure of success is “what kind of a living can I make doing only this?”. Most of my students play for the love of playing, and the professions I listed above - and my own - amount to a day job that is adjacent to the art form and practice that actually moves and motivates them - and me. Fortunately, I consider teaching and mentoring an honorable profession where I get to try to pay forward the care and inspiration that a number of great teachers shared with me when I was younger.
As for the future of the program, I have no idea. It seems that our current culture devalues anything that isn’t quantifiable in monetary terms. In my personal opinion, our culture is forgetting what an actual education is supposed to be about. But that’s possibly a different, much longer, and more philosophical thread.
Thanks very much for your direct, but eloquent response. You have obviously been greatly successful, by any metric, and no doubt, well appreciated in your efforts.
In a climate of defund this and defund that, ‘the arts’ take an early and impactful hit. I won’t dwell on politics, but politics is omnipresent in every endeavor, at every level and is extremely impactful here.
It’s no secret that arts funding is at the mercy of corporate and federal and state endowment. Art programs in the schools are reflected in this mix as well.
I think the bottom line appears when the average Joe Blow moves around in the world and says to his buddy “I wonder what happened to that nice little ‘Concert in the Park’ series?, or strolling around Disney World, “I wonder what happened to that great saxophone sextet that strolled around?”
Like the song says, “…you don’t know what you got ‘till it’s gone…
I hope the OP finds peace and satisfaction for both he and his son.
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I don't mean to dis anyone who teaches or has other forms of income besides playing. I teach now myself, both privately and as an adjunct at a couple of local colleges. I also feel very fortunate to have made a decent living playing. It was, and still is, my love of playing music that made it even more enjoyable. My point is that I feel sad that the opportunities I had don't seem to exist anymore for younger players, especially for decent pay. The profs I know at the local colleges are great people and excellent musicians, but I couldn't do what they do and would never had made it through all that schooling. Having some sort of day job and playing on the side is probably the smart way to go, but I never figured that out. As a young player I looked up to the guys who were in their 70s, 80s, and even 90s who were still showing up to the gig and playing great. Now that I'm at that place myself I feel even more fortunate to be able to play as much as I do. I hope that young players today can have as many opportunities to play and enjoy it as much as I did, whatever they may be.
'Probably not a popular opinion around here, but... I paid for my undergrad education using the GI bill.
I also know several good players who used to hang around here that are in military bands that are knocking it out of the park financially compared to ther workhorse gigging friends- great pay, benefits, retirement, they own houses, they have financial security, and they still get to play their bass with fantastic musicians every day. The catch is you've gotta be ok with short hair, funny costumes, and not be a raging drug addict 24 /7
I also know several good players who used to hang around here that are in military bands that are knocking it out of the park financially compared to ther workhorse gigging friends- great pay, benefits, retirement, they own houses, they have financial security, and they still get to play their bass with fantastic musicians every day. The catch is you've gotta be ok with short hair, funny costumes, and not be a raging drug addict 24 /7
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I was drafted during Vietnam but decided the band wasn't for me after auditioning and didn't want to go to school after discharge so never used the GI bill. I assume military bands are a better deal now. I didn't want anything to do with any of it.
I can understand and support your feelings, but the Vietnam conflict ended 51 years ago; reinforcing my post #14. 
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@Wasnex, you have discussed your military band career in other threads... What music related schooling and/or experience did you have in advance of that???
Like I said, I hope and assume it's much better now. It's still the military, which is not for everyone at any time. It's smart to not forget the past, since it can be very instructive in many ways.I can understand and support your feelings, but the Vietnam conflict ended 51 years ago; reinforcing my post #14.
I started on viola in 5th grade. I crossed to double bass at approximately 8th grade and participated in the city's youth orchestra. By second year on bass I was usually selected as 1st chair for the youth orchestra as well as the annual all-city and all-region series.
In 10th grade I went back to viola because the three best bass players in town went to the same high-school. Continued on bass in the youth orchestra. I also added big band.
11th grade I dropped out of the school music program and enrolled in 3 hr per day vocational electronics class. The orchestra teacher forced the youth orchestra charter, which said all members must participate in their schools program. For the first half of 12th grade I participated in big band, but was not enrolled in the class. Also during this year I was asked to play in a university big band and several pit orchestras. I borrowed upright and bass guitar. Eventually I bought a Ric 4001.
After graduating from HS, I took a placement test for the local college music program and was required to take a pre-college theory class over the summer. I initially had the plan of becoming an engineer similar to Agedhorse, so I took math classes. For music I took theory, ear training, and big band. Eventually I concluded that I did not have what it takes to continue with higher level math and declared a music major for one semester. After that, I dropped out and joined the military as an electronics technician after completing Classical Theory and Ear Training 201.
In the military I continued self study. I had bought a Real Book in college and was being mentored by one of the adjunct jazz guitar instructors. At my first assignment I volunteered to play in a back up band that was formed for the annual talent show. That band formed into a permanent cover band that played several gigs on base. Sometimes we even got paid
.There was a military band at my second assignment. I bought a really crappy Kay double bass and worked on Simandl. I also had continued reading chord notation from the Real Book. I won an audition, but would say I was not fully qualified. At the time the career field had a critical shortage of bass players, so they gave me a chance. This involved cross training as the band program is an actual career field.
I worked hard and received great mentoring at my first assignment. I don't believe I was ever the best bassist at any of my assignments, but I eventually developed into a pretty good one who was really well-suited to the idiosyncrasies of the job.
I hold Associates in Applied Science degrees in music and electronics from the Community College of the Air Force. I also hold a BS in Business Administration HRM from a civilian institution. To complete course requirements, I attended night school and took online classes. The military paid tuition for all classes. I had to buy books.
I paid for the GI bill but transferred it to one of my kids. I think she used about 3/4 of it, before aging out.
Was, what years was that for your service? I wonder if we competed against each other in those talent contests. I humbly took 1st place in a couple of them playing guitar in the mid 1980s in the USAF. I never had an option to transfer my GI Bill.
I have a couple of friends who sort of circumvented their educational goals with music. One was an engineer who found a school that was short on bass players. He got a scholarship & free tuition to play double bass in their performance bands with a minor in music that allowed him to enroll as an engineering major. The other was a dentist who used his drum playing skills to pay for college both at the school and gigging late nights to the extent that he came away with zero loans.
I have a couple of friends who sort of circumvented their educational goals with music. One was an engineer who found a school that was short on bass players. He got a scholarship & free tuition to play double bass in their performance bands with a minor in music that allowed him to enroll as an engineering major. The other was a dentist who used his drum playing skills to pay for college both at the school and gigging late nights to the extent that he came away with zero loans.
Sounds like we had overlapping service dates. I played in back up bands for the Incirlik AB talent show in 1987 and 1988. I did not compete.
The GI bill has evolved quite a bit since I joined. In the middle of my career they offered an option where I could pay $600 extra to plus it up. Towards the end of my career, they converted it to a different form that totally disregarded the plus up. However, the new form was worth significantly more and paid for more types of expenses, but it still felt like I gave away $600 for nothing. At some point it was made transferrable to family members, but they can only use it up through age 26.
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TitleI started on viola in 5th grade. I crossed to double bass at approximately 8th grade and participated in the city's youth orchestra. By second year on bass I was usually selected as 1st chair for the youth orchestra as well as the annual all-city and all-region series.
In 10th grade I went back to viola because the three best bass players in town went to the same high-school. Continued on bass in the youth orchestra. I also added big band.
11th grade I dropped out of the school music program and enrolled in 3 hr per day vocational electronics class. The orchestra teacher forced the youth orchestra charter, which said all members must participate in their schools program. For the first half of 12th grade I participated in big band, but was not enrolled in the class. Also during this year I was asked to play in a university big band and several pit orchestras. I borrowed upright and bass guitar. Eventually I bought a Ric 4001.
After graduating from HS, I took a placement test for the local college music program and was required to take a pre-college theory class over the summer. I initially had the plan of becoming an engineer similar to Agedhorse, so I took math classes. For music I took theory, ear training, and big band. Eventually I concluded that I did not have what it takes to continue with higher level math and declared a music major for one semester. After that, I dropped out and joined the military as an electronics technician after completing Classical Theory and Ear Training 201.
In the military I continued self study. I had bought a Real Book in college and was being mentored by one of the adjunct jazz guitar instructors. At my first assignment I volunteered to play in a back up band that was formed for the annual talent show. That band formed into a permanent cover band that played several gigs on base. Sometimes we even got paid
There was a military band at my second assignment. I bought a really crappy Kay double bass and worked on Simandl. I also had continued reading chord notation from the Real Book. I won an audition, but would say I was not fully qualified. At the time the career field had a critical shortage of bass players, so they gave me a chance. This involved cross training as the band program is an actual career field.
I worked hard and received great mentoring at my first assignment. I don't believe I was ever the best bassist at any of my assignments, but I eventually developed into a pretty good one who was really well-suited to the idiosyncrasies of the job.
I hold Associates in Applied Science degrees in music and electronics from the Community College of the Air Force. I also hold a BS in Business Administration HRM from a civilian institution. To complete course requirements, I attended night school and took online classes. The military paid tuition for all classes. I had to buy books.
I paid for the GI bill but transferred it to one of my kids. I think she used about 3/4 of it, before aging out.
2026冠军少年•艺术奥林匹克
Translated:
2026 Champion Junior Art Olympic
This young girl is playing in the equivalent
of upper reaches of bass thump position with great tone and bow technique. It’s not just piano child marvels. This is the nature of music education and expectation these days.
Attachments
Although I am not a veteran, I always recognize that your service made it possible for me to make a different choice.
We might disagree about some things but I respect you both and thank you for your service.
Over the years I've met a number of ex-military musicians. One thing I can say without exception is that they all had killer chops and knowledge, just from playing so much, but have also been among the nicest people on the planet.
I was fortunate to get financial aid due to being the first in my family to attend college, academic, and merit scholarships that paid for both my performance and education degrees. I did however become a father during that time and took out loans to cover medical expenses. The teacher thing helped me basically get out paying about 10k for both degrees. Both my masters (music ed and ed, not music) half price because of my grades. I was able to just pay out of pocket. About to start a PhD that will be fully paid for, and stipended.
I have a student who wants to pursue a performance degree. The parents are already asking me for advice about finances. I have connections at the local community college music dept. and am hoping to get info from them. The whole financial thing makes me want to take a nap.
