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Antoniotsai Ritter copies!

#101
morf said:
Lokire: As far as Mr. Ritter not minding people copying his basses, I think that if indeed he did not, he wouldn't buy them himself off eBay to burn them afterwards ;)
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This burning thing, i was thinking about it and what a waste. I mean wouldnt it be better to buy them all and ship them out to like africa or something, to people who cant afford to buy a bass and do the world some good? It may not be first class goods but its better then nothing right?
He could even slap his own name on them and then when the next Richard Bona gets one guess who he is going to go looking for to make his basses when he is discovered;)
I just think its such a waste, we could have a million happy poor kids or a pig pile of ash (as in the stuff after burning not the wood:D ) I sure know what i would do if i had enough money !!
 
#102
Personally I can understand that when someone tries to copy something artistic you've made (and IMHO bass deisgns are just that: art, especially ritters), I wouldn't want to see it and if I did I would do the exact same thing.

I'm studying journalism, and if in the future my articles are good and I am well known throughout the journalism community for writing good stuff, and some journal publishes them without asking for my permission, I'd certainly buy all the copies I could find and burn them :)
 
#104
westland said:
Similarly, a Ritter knockoff will lack quality parts and the fit and tolerances of a real Ritter. There will be a difference, and it will hurt the Ritter brand.
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hmm. i am not sure about that. being copied is a form of flattery, and anyone who could confuse one of these instruments for a real ritter was not seriously in the market for one to begin with, so i doubt they could do much damage to the brand name. it's pretty obvious, despite the body design, that these are not anything remotely like real ritters - the bridges, controls layout and pickups are obviously not his stuff, and anyone who knows anything about ritters would catch that right off the bat.

on the other hand, anyone who sees these instruments and is impressed with them might make an effort to find out more about them, which would then serve to introduce new folks to the ritter brand. -shrug-.

then again, jens designed these body styles. one of them does owe its inspiration to a carl thompson, but it is by no means a direct copy, nor is it sold to be one. jens' designs are both unique and aesthetically beautiful in an age of copy-itis, which is rare, and it's sorta weak that someone else is copying them. in making new designs, jens took a step into the unknown, comitted to following up, and basically rolled the dice with his future. in hindsight, it was a good decision, but he assumed all the risk initially and he should therefore get all the benefits. to have someone else benefit from his risk is not right.:hmm:
 
#106
morf said:
I dont know what you're implying by this, but I do not own copies, nor do I own a Ritter, or a Smith for that matter. I just think that if you think Ritters rock then save up and get yourself the real thing instead of buying cheap copies (not telling you what to do, just my opinion on the matter). My use of the word illegal was wrong, I learned that recently so spare me on that one.
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Spare you? :D


I'm not implying anything, I'm saying what I'm saying. If you'd like to give reading it in context another try, it might help. It was post #78, complete with what I quoted.

As far as what people buy, I 'm sure they appreciate your input. It's been pointed out several times and maybe you just don't see it... it's highly doubtful that someone who wants a Ritter would also want a cheap bass that resembles a Ritter. The buyer of the cheap Ritter is probably not a potential buyer in the near future. In fact, if they get that cheap bass and find it's not up to what a real one is, maybe they'll save their money and try to get a real one someday.



Lokire: As far as Mr. Ritter not minding people copying his basses, I think that if indeed he did not, he wouldn't buy them himself off eBay to burn them afterwards ;)
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Maybe Mark Eshenbaugh will buy one and burn it too because that sure isn't a Ritter or Ritter style headstock...

and the person building them makes the same money either way. He must hate that.
 
#108
john turner said:
hmm. i am not sure about that. being copied is a form of flattery, and anyone who could confuse one of these instruments for a real ritter was not seriously in the market for one to begin with, so i doubt they could do much damage to the brand name. it's pretty obvious, despite the body design, that these are not anything remotely like real ritters - the bridges, controls layout and pickups are obviously not his stuff, and anyone who knows anything about ritters would catch that right off the bat.

on the other hand, anyone who sees these instruments and is impressed with them might make an effort to find out more about them, which would then serve to introduce new folks to the ritter brand. -shrug-.

then again, jens designed these body styles. one of them does owe its inspiration to a carl thompson, but it is by no means a direct copy, nor is it sold to be one. jens' designs are both unique and aesthetically beautiful in an age of copy-itis, which is rare, and it's sorta weak that someone else is copying them. in making new designs, jens took a step into the unknown, comitted to following up, and basically rolled the dice with his future. in hindsight, it was a good decision, but he assumed all the risk initially and he should therefore get all the benefits. to have someone else benefit from his risk is not right.:hmm:
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I agree with this and especially about them not really being that much of a copy.

Building stuff that resembles other stuff has been a staple of this game for a long time. Sometimes people do almost exact copies, something I've never been cool with but hey, what are you going to do? In this case these are hardly exact copies expect for someone who know the brand anyway. They seem "inspired" by Ritters. As you said, Jens has been inspired by another builder too... at least once;)

I know people who bought Kawai F2B and Ibanez Musicians who ended up buying real Alembics later on. How many builders build Carl Thompson-inspired basses these days? Who came up with that curled, double pointed upper horn? At this point I'm not sure any more. Apparently it's fair game for anyone to use it now, which to me is less of an affront than making a bass that looks identical to a Fender Jazz except for the headstock, which is very common and doesn't insprie anywhere near the level of indignation. Interesting.

Jens makes very high end instruments, anyone who couldn't see the obvious differences probably deserves to be disappointed... I don't see anything where the seller is trying to dupe anyone into thinking these are anything more than basses that only resemble Ritters visually... and to me that's even a stretch. The claw headstock isn't a Ritter thing AFAIK.
 
#109
morf said:
As far as Mr. Ritter not minding people copying his basses, I think that if indeed he did not, he wouldn't buy them himself off eBay to burn them afterwards ;)
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I'm always curious how this type of chatter ever gets started. It makes zero business sense to buy a "competitors" product in the hopes of damaging the competitor. It makes even less sense to spend your own money, simply to literally burn it up :confused:

It is amazing what people will believe if they read it on the internet ..... :rolleyes: :cool: :D
 
#110
When its written by the person doing it I usually believe it lol.

As far as doing so to damage the competitor, I dont think that was the goal. Being a luthier is being an artist, and having your creations copied can not make you very happy, thats the way I see it.
 
#111
I got a chance to check one of these basses, in a non-Ritter style, this weekend. The owner swapped out the stock electronics for a U-Retro and Bartolini pickups. It was a six. Played well and sounded pretty good. Decent instrument in the form I played it in.
 
#112
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#116
westland said:
I'm not sure about Jens ... but certainly Ken Smith seems not to feel that imitation is the greatest form or flattery. He started this thread

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=271466&highlight=fraud

About this

http://cgi.ebay.com/MAGNIFIC-4-STRINGS-STYLE-KEN-SMITH-BASS_W0QQitemZ260025474294QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41432QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And it's clear that quality of the copies is the main issue.
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And that has nothing to do with this.
 
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