Double Bass Any suggestions for approaching new, challenging music...

[Jim Dedrick]

At least challenging for me and the other two guys...

This trio (Piano, Bass, & Drums) IMHO does a good job sight reading each other’s charts and pushing standards to new interpretations. Ive been gigging with these two guys a few times/month for about a year or so and also play with them, both together and individually, in other bands from time to time. Most of our gigs are full of new, frequently unseen, charts which go well.

Earlier today we tried some of Dave Holland’s music; Four Winds and African Lullaby (also looking to try The Whirling Dervish). Charts were practiced ahead of time. We found that the music was much more challenging than any of us thought. Good thing we did not try to play these at a gig with no practice! The changing time signatures and poly rhythms did not seem so hard when listening and learning at home but in the band setting it was down right hard to just keep the heads together. Lots of breaking down section into two or four bars sections.

I’m sure we will get the groove where it needs to be, open up some wonderful free solo sections, and was wondering if anyone has suggestions to help the group learn music we find challenging more efficiently?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Stuff outside of your "comfort zone" just has to be played frequently and often so it becomes familiar. How many times have you walked 4 over changes? You probably didn't have the most comfortable time when you started out. Playing more challenging music - harmonically, rhythmically, conceptually, technically - is no different.

 

[Contrabbasso76]

I think you should spend more time listening to the music and playing along with it for a comfortable amount of time before you start playing out in public or at rehearsal. Even if you nail the chart before the rehearsal, it’s not the same as really internalizing the music. And the human brain internalizes music on IT’S OWN SCHEDULE.

Have you ever listened to a song and sung along with the melody, only to look at the chart years later and realize that it was written in something jarring like alternating bars of 4/4 and 5/4? At that point, did you realize that maybe the time signature was irrelevant because you just “knew” how the song went? How often do you think you would need to listen to African Lullaby to get it to that point? Because that’s where the gold is. shag the chart, as it’s only a reference guide. Learn it by ear without writing it down, both the bass line and the melody.

Concerning Whirling Dervish, which version are you listening to? The one on the record “Hands” with Pepe Habichuela is the one I like, and thanks to you I am listening to it now. The bass is almost like a broken tumbao, so if you know how that type of bass line is supposed to feel like, you’ll have a better time with that song. As it stands you can clap a 2-3 clave over it. The big challenge with playing a tumbao style bass line is making sure you are playing a little ahead of the beat. Jazz musicians particularly have a difficult time with that, as so much about swing music is played a little behind the beat with “near straight” 8th notes soloed over swing, etc. And not just rhythm players! If you make a salsa band horn section out of players that are used to shedding Dexter Gordon, Lee Morgan, etc. they’ll drag like a MF. Nothing to get mad about, it’s a clash of style.

Anyway, my point is that you don’t want to forget to listen “ad nauseum” to some of this music before you get out and start playing it.

And my apologies if I’ve mentioned nothing you didn’t already know. I do that sometimes lolol

 

[Jim Dedrick]

I think you should spend more time listening to the music and playing along with it for a comfortable amount of time before you start playing out in public or at rehearsal. Even if you nail the chart before the rehearsal, it’s not the same as really internalizing the music. And the human brain internalizes music on IT’S OWN SCHEDULE.

Have you ever listened to a song and sung along with the melody, only to look at the chart years later and realize that it was written in something jarring like alternating bars of 4/4 and 5/4? At that point, did you realize that maybe the time signature was irrelevant because you just “knew” how the song went? How often do you think you would need to listen to African Lullaby to get it to that point? Because that’s where the gold is. shag the chart, as it’s only a reference guide. Learn it by ear without writing it down, both the bass line and the melody.

Concerning Whirling Dervish, which version are you listening to? The one on the record “Hands” with Pepe Habichuela is the one I like, and thanks to you I am listening to it now. The bass is almost like a broken tumbao, so if you know how that type of bass line is supposed to feel like, you’ll have a better time with that song. As it stands you can clap a 2-3 clave over it. The big challenge with playing a tumbao style bass line is making sure you are playing a little ahead of the beat. Jazz musicians particularly have a difficult time with that, as so much about swing music is played a little behind the beat with “near straight” 8th notes soloed over swing, etc. And not just rhythm players! If you make a salsa band horn section out of players that are used to shedding Dexter Gordon, Lee Morgan, etc. they’ll drag like a MF. Nothing to get mad about, it’s a clash of style.

Anyway, my point is that you don’t want to forget to listen “ad nauseum” to some of this music before you get out and start playing it.

And my apologies if I’ve mentioned nothing you didn’t already know. I do that sometimes lolol

Thanks Contrabasso 76. I think internalizing is something we all do and something I need to do more intintionally. I think by ear it was pretty close and that was before getting a hold of the charts. Your point about jazzers playing a tumbao style is also accurate and not something I was considering. So personally, I could spend some more time playing without the charts and also focus some time on playing on top of the beat. Likely this will help the others as well. As far as the clash in style for all players...

The versions of Whirling Dervish I have been listening to is on the World Trio album with Kevin Eubanks and Mino Cinelu. I also have the Hands copy and- thanks to you - I am going to listen to it now as well.

 

[Jmilitsc]

Have you ever listened to a song and sung along with the melody, only to look at the chart years later and realize that it was written in something jarring like alternating bars of 4/4 and 5/4? At that point, did you realize that maybe the time signature was irrelevant because you just “knew” how the song went?

Great point, I had always heard this as triplets:

Playing in an (amateur) orchestra the past few yeas has really helped with absorbing more challenging music of any genre. Tons of key changes and time changes to react to on the score. At the same time, playing a lot of jazz and other music helps me in the orchestra quite a bit too. I guess I’m just saying a frequent and wide exposure to lots of different stuff helps me absorb any one new thing which then helps more down the road as the toolbox has more tools added.

 

[Contrabbasso76]

Lollllll Jmilitsc those are totally triplets until measure 6. I’m right there with you.