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Double Bass any thoughts about the current economic/job situation?
- Thread starter ekspain
- Start date
Jobs & music jobs are two different things. Here in SD, job situation still stinks; Music, however, seems to be picking up just a bit (but it's never been good in SD). There's always work in LA if you're decent.
I read on MSN 
P) last year that orchestral musicians are one of the hardest hit demographics in this recession. Hotel owners and pastry chefs were on the list too, incidentally.
P) last year that orchestral musicians are one of the hardest hit demographics in this recession. Hotel owners and pastry chefs were on the list too, incidentally.With the potential loss of Syracuse and detroit. The ending of honolulu, Louisville, and wasn't there another??? We also have many if not most US orchestras in the red.
In Europe, the situation is not good either. Barcelona just may cancel their upcoming audition for Asst Prin Bass and Concertmaster because they cannot afford to pay those positions due to cut-backs by the gov't. One of the great Opera Companies, La Scalla, is also greatly suffering due to gov't cutbacks.
We have a world issue on our hands regarding orchestral jobs. Yes, it is nice having two tenure track positions currently open NJSO and Florida, but let's not get carried away.
Grant park, Assoc. Prin Elgin, Principal of LA Chamber, and the allusive Prin CSO are also open.
In the end, who's to say any of these orchestra name a winner.
Things haven't looked so dry in years. Eks is right to pose the question... Too many talented bass players (young/old) out there for very limited jobs. It's a problem and the numbers continue to grow. Where are all these players going to end up? Can't stay in school forever!
In Europe, the situation is not good either. Barcelona just may cancel their upcoming audition for Asst Prin Bass and Concertmaster because they cannot afford to pay those positions due to cut-backs by the gov't. One of the great Opera Companies, La Scalla, is also greatly suffering due to gov't cutbacks.
We have a world issue on our hands regarding orchestral jobs. Yes, it is nice having two tenure track positions currently open NJSO and Florida, but let's not get carried away.
Grant park, Assoc. Prin Elgin, Principal of LA Chamber, and the allusive Prin CSO are also open.
In the end, who's to say any of these orchestra name a winner.
Things haven't looked so dry in years. Eks is right to pose the question... Too many talented bass players (young/old) out there for very limited jobs. It's a problem and the numbers continue to grow. Where are all these players going to end up? Can't stay in school forever!
It seems like the playing level is skyrocketing while the number of jobs is diminishing.
Its awesome that people are playing so well, but the job situation (or lack thereof) is really exasperating. Don't mean to bring anyone down, just interesting to see how folks deal with this problem.
Unfortunately, even "tenured" positions don't seem safe in this climate.
I wonder where this is going to lead, eventually. Perhaps to fewer ensembles, mainly
in heavily populated metropolitan cities?
Its awesome that people are playing so well, but the job situation (or lack thereof) is really exasperating. Don't mean to bring anyone down, just interesting to see how folks deal with this problem.
Unfortunately, even "tenured" positions don't seem safe in this climate.
I wonder where this is going to lead, eventually. Perhaps to fewer ensembles, mainly
in heavily populated metropolitan cities?
What frustrates me the most is the open positions that stay open without auditions for them, AND even more severe, the open positions which get cut off the roster, meaning there will never be an audition for them. New Jersey has an audition for one position, which will bring the section to 5. FIVE! A few years ago they had 7 on the roster.
What is so concerning about those kinds of situations is that even when our economy bounces back and (hopefully) orchestras get their feet planted again, if these positions are cut from the roster, it may take a long time, if ever, to get them back.
At least Cleveland is having an audition. Let's hope NY and Boston follow their lead before too long.
Certain economies, and consequently their orchestras, are still growing. Brazil and China, for instance. There are job opportunities for musicians in these as well as other countries. I'm going to Brazil for a job this year. WAY is in Beijing. A lot of these newer jobs pay very well, a real middle-class salary.
Isn't Stavanger holding an audition in NYC in March? Get on it, ya'll....
What is so concerning about those kinds of situations is that even when our economy bounces back and (hopefully) orchestras get their feet planted again, if these positions are cut from the roster, it may take a long time, if ever, to get them back.
At least Cleveland is having an audition. Let's hope NY and Boston follow their lead before too long.
Certain economies, and consequently their orchestras, are still growing. Brazil and China, for instance. There are job opportunities for musicians in these as well as other countries. I'm going to Brazil for a job this year. WAY is in Beijing. A lot of these newer jobs pay very well, a real middle-class salary.
Isn't Stavanger holding an audition in NYC in March? Get on it, ya'll....
I work in Spain, and things are comfortable for the most part, however, with the looming crisis things look a little precarious. People seem confident that nothing could happen, but I don't believe things are ever that stable...Just have to live one day at a time I guess, not worry about things...Good to hear those orchestras are holding auditions!
@ ekspain
Living and working in Greece (the worst hit by the crisis european country, Spain and Portugal might be soon after Ireland to go to the IMF for bail outs packages) I might be able to give you an idea of what's in store, ekspain.
If you are good enough to get a job without the crisis the work situation is not likely to change much.
What will change is the how and when you get paid!
I worked for the Athens Municipal Symphony Orchestra as a dep tutti for Sept., Oct., Nov and a week in December. I'll (porbably) get paid in April at the soonest and I'll get about 1500 euros (after VAT, Tax etc.) total for the three months!. This is of course crappy money. In December I did an audition for and got the second B' principal on the National Opera who pay much better and on time (1600 euros/month after tax etc.)
Now it seems to me that thing will always be a case of trying to convince bank managers to cut you slack until things get back on track.
Crap jobs will come and go as will the cushy ones. Just keep up your skills and do all the auditions and 'put it about'!
FC
Living and working in Greece (the worst hit by the crisis european country, Spain and Portugal might be soon after Ireland to go to the IMF for bail outs packages) I might be able to give you an idea of what's in store, ekspain.
If you are good enough to get a job without the crisis the work situation is not likely to change much.
What will change is the how and when you get paid!
I worked for the Athens Municipal Symphony Orchestra as a dep tutti for Sept., Oct., Nov and a week in December. I'll (porbably) get paid in April at the soonest and I'll get about 1500 euros (after VAT, Tax etc.) total for the three months!. This is of course crappy money. In December I did an audition for and got the second B' principal on the National Opera who pay much better and on time (1600 euros/month after tax etc.)
Now it seems to me that thing will always be a case of trying to convince bank managers to cut you slack until things get back on track.
Crap jobs will come and go as will the cushy ones. Just keep up your skills and do all the auditions and 'put it about'!
FC
The Municipal Symphony orchestra has about 90% of its players on permenant contracts.
I was covering for a girl who had maternity leave and never signed any type of contract, instead I issued 'Bulletin for sevices rendered' (something like an invoice) for each concert I played.
The pay there is really bad - 200euros for about ten days work. The amount built up because the "didn't have the cash available."
Now they owe me about 1500 euros net. VAT has gone up to 23% here and there is a serious lack of ready cash in local govenment (the AMSO is payed by the Athens town council), and I've been told that I'll have to wait until April before I get a penny!
The Privately run and partially govenment funded (by the Ministery for the Arts) National Opera of Greece is a very different. The pay is much better (about triple) and the contracts are much more serious.
I have a 4 month renewable contract (a formality here but It costs less to fire someone on this kind of contract) and I get paid regularly (so far) and next month I hope to have made peace with at least one of my bank managers!
The big question on everyones mind is what happens if a 'per service' pay scheme is put into opperation. With a large pool of players which is common in a number of european orchestras, this will cause major headaches.
The answer could be to play more concerts in an 'A and B' orchestras formation, or just to play only huge scale works or to book full sections to play even Mozart (Karajan did this to get the whole band paid in the BPO for recordings).
Either way I still think that if you keep your chops up you will survive until things improve which they will sooner or later. The point is to be there when they do!
FC
I was covering for a girl who had maternity leave and never signed any type of contract, instead I issued 'Bulletin for sevices rendered' (something like an invoice) for each concert I played.
The pay there is really bad - 200euros for about ten days work. The amount built up because the "didn't have the cash available."
Now they owe me about 1500 euros net. VAT has gone up to 23% here and there is a serious lack of ready cash in local govenment (the AMSO is payed by the Athens town council), and I've been told that I'll have to wait until April before I get a penny!
The Privately run and partially govenment funded (by the Ministery for the Arts) National Opera of Greece is a very different. The pay is much better (about triple) and the contracts are much more serious.
I have a 4 month renewable contract (a formality here but It costs less to fire someone on this kind of contract) and I get paid regularly (so far) and next month I hope to have made peace with at least one of my bank managers!
The big question on everyones mind is what happens if a 'per service' pay scheme is put into opperation. With a large pool of players which is common in a number of european orchestras, this will cause major headaches.
The answer could be to play more concerts in an 'A and B' orchestras formation, or just to play only huge scale works or to book full sections to play even Mozart (Karajan did this to get the whole band paid in the BPO for recordings).
Either way I still think that if you keep your chops up you will survive until things improve which they will sooner or later. The point is to be there when they do!
FC
You seem to be in real trouble over in the states....
That's a damn shame since the Americans did so much to improve the quality of symphony orchestras in the past 60 year. Since Toscanini and Mitropoulos started to record everything everything in the classical music business has imporved exponentially.... until about 5 years ago when the worldwide economic crisis reared its ugly head. Now the sh*t hits the fan, people lose jobs, orchestras vanish, and there's no Tocanini to save us now because 'everybody knows everything' and no knowledge is valuable enough to turn anyone into a messiah (such as Bernstein) anymore.
Don't you just hate it when things get out of hand?....
FC
That's a damn shame since the Americans did so much to improve the quality of symphony orchestras in the past 60 year. Since Toscanini and Mitropoulos started to record everything everything in the classical music business has imporved exponentially.... until about 5 years ago when the worldwide economic crisis reared its ugly head. Now the sh*t hits the fan, people lose jobs, orchestras vanish, and there's no Tocanini to save us now because 'everybody knows everything' and no knowledge is valuable enough to turn anyone into a messiah (such as Bernstein) anymore.
Don't you just hate it when things get out of hand?....
FC
