Any tips on how to be ok with bad drummer?

[two fingers]

I can't believe nobody has brought this up yet!

If you guys are getting successful, "sharing the stage" with big name acts, and selling a lot of CDs locally, invest.some of your money back into an in-ear monitor system and a click track! Anybody who doesn't want to hear it can take that channel out of their monitor mix (with the exception of the drummer, of course). If the dude can't play to a click that's just sad.

Duh.

 

[1954bassman]

Seems like most bands have this same issue. At least one slacker.

And you sound like me, I work hard on learning songs, and put hours and hours into personal practice. Right now I am part of five bands, and really only one of them doesn't have at least one slacker in it.

But to b honest, I push myself (perhaps too much), and just maybe I expect too much from others, I don't know. There are always be those who take things more serious that others.

Right now, I am only playing with two different drummers. One is a former pro who toured for thirty years. He is a joy to jam with, and he still puts in personal practice time every day. Drummer #2 is a 35 year old self-taught "know-it-all" who gets bored at practice, never starts or ends songs with the band, doesn't ever play hooks or fills with the rest of the band, and has no real dynamics, going from light cymbals to merciless beating. Plus he throws temper tantrums.

The band baby hughie (#2) is in is not my band, I play bass and the BL puts up with his junk.

I guess what I am getting at is if one takes their music and band serious, there will always be that person in the band who is not as committed.

 

[lermgalieu]

There is no cure for a bad drummer. It is the most weighty of afflictions, closely followed by wanking guitarist and alcoholic singer.

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Fire the guitar player. Hopefully, he'll get the message.

 

[JaredBT]

A bad drummer wrecks everything, it's no bueno! Gotta replace him. Sorry.

 

[pcake]

i'm curious just how bad the drummer is, since the band is getting bigger shows, selling CDs and opening for national acts. maybe he feels a lot worse to you because you know how the timing is supposed to be.

any chance you have something we can hear?

 

[JonathanAlvarez]

Use him (drumer) as a manager or something where he is not playing any instrument , but can still be "part of the band" and look for a new good drummer.

 

[Jay2U]

OP, tell that drummer to sync on your bass playing!

 

[HandsFree]

I've been in a similar situation.
Make sure you are the one that is in control, you should be anyway being the bassist.
Stand close to the drummer at his hi-hat side. You decide the tempo and if the drummer rushes or slows down keep eye contact and possibly move your head a bit in the correct tempo.
On a rehearsal you can exaggarate, on a performance less so, but you can still cue.

You can also cue breaks and such with the neck of your bass.
I did this on a performance and someone in the audience who had also played with that drummer complimented me how I had kept the drummer tight.
If he/she is otherwise an enjoyable person to work with it's worth it.

 

[Metalbasspro]

Get a record company involved. They will send him packing if he does not shape up, they won't care he stated the band LOL

 

[Honch]

Just Dunning-Kruger syndrome again. No more, no less. Cognitive Bias.

This stumps me the most. Why it's important to stay and be OK with a drummer (or any musician) which is not OK with you?

The thing is. People don't think that by playing badly, and severely badly, out of tune, out of tempo is - by my book - the equivalent of saying "F' you" and giving fingers and being rude and unpolite and careless to other people around them. People thinks just swearing, cursing, being insular in words, action, manners is the ONLY thing that is not ok. Not playing well, or not being able to recognize shortcomings that needs to work on, at the same time as being frightened of their own talent, and strutting about it, is way more rude, and unacceptable behaviour to me, than anyone telling me to go "f" myself and this or that. I can't find any profanity that tops this. The main thing is, that he started it, not you.

Is there such a shortage of musicians out there?
Is there such a need, addiction for you to just play, whatever music, with whatever musicians, that you just have to put up with it? I e put up with anything?

Sooner, or later, it's going to build up, and he takes solace and comfort in it all, because you guys can cope with him, and he KNOWS this. He rides on top of everybody else, being that parasite. Show him the Dunning-Kruger Syndrome research, and ask him to read, and learn something about all things cognitive bias. It's too late, and life's too short, just move on, and don't dwell on things, or hold grudges.

You aren't paid to make some kind of samaritarian, charitable causes, and play with the people of lesser "means". I've stopped ages ago being kind (yes, Jeff Berlin still got it in my book) to those people since a) I gain absolutely nothing from/for it, and b) loses absolutely nothing from it. That "vibing" that has to occur, does occur with me around it, and I don't care. The thing that I've learned from experience is simply one thing. You try this and that, being kind and polite but in the end it always ends up in this eternal question a) IF THAT DOESN'T HELP, THEN WHAT? If it doesn't give you huge chunks of money, to keep silent, then leave. ASAP.

You must always look yourself in the mirror, and ask that question. You've tried everything and neither this nor that helped. then what? Not even plan B. No plan C. But plan Z.

I've been wondering of, if all these problems are artifacts, or result of the - sort of - Snowflake Generation kind of thing. Don't do, say anything that will even have the slighest chance of offending anyone, the slightest. At any chance. They'll always throw in these a) sexist b) ageist c)elitist argument to say you're a bad and evil person.

 

[Spidey2112]

I'm not asking how to make the drummer better, how to replace him, how to tell him he's not good enough, or any of that. I'm hoping someone has a new perspective I haven't thought of for ways to keep me from losing my mind or quitting the band I've spent almost 2 years working my butt off for.

Back story:

The drummer is older than all of us, has been playing longer than any of us, and is just not very good. The issue is, he doesn't practice, and while a good musician lets layman comments like "You guys are so awesome!" roll right off like a bead of water, every compliment my drummer hears is like a galvanization for why he doesn't need to try harder. It's maddening.

The problem is, this whole band was his idea. He named it, he put it in motion, he gathered the initial personnel, he managed every move of the band when it was in its infancy, and he has been instrumental in the business side of things - which, let's be honest, is no small contribution.

When I was approached about joining the band, the reasoning I was given for why they were replacing the guy they had before me was that he wasn't committed to the band, didn't want to rehearse, and didn't want to be an actual member of the group. He didn't want to help promote, write, or any other responsibility for a true band member. They said they wanted someone who could rehearse at least once a week, but more than likely twice a week, wanted someone who wasn't afraid to put in some work, and who could contribute ideas and move things forward. So I joined the band with a fair warning to the rest of the group that I don't do anything half-heartedly, and that I was only joining this band because the dedication they were expecting of me seemed like it must be something they all had themselves. Everyone was on the same page, I thought.

We released our first CD in June, and it has sold well locally. Everything is going well for us. We played a huge festival this summer in front of thousands of people, we've been on regional radio and tv, have shared the stage with countless big names in the past couple years, and everything just keeps getting bigger and better.

But as the opportunities get bigger and the stakes get higher, I constantly think about how much his drumming limits us. His tempos fluctuate greatly, he forces fills he can't play into spaces he can't fit them into, and he can't hold on to his sticks to save his life. He's not an awful drummer, he just NEVER PRACTICES. We've openly addressed the issues as a band, and I've been straight with him. I've told him I'd like him to find another bass player if he won't put the same time and effort into being the best he can be that the rest of us put into our own instruments.

It remains to be seen whether or not he will put in the effort, but everyone in the band is on the same page as I am. Like I said, though, this whole thing is his baby, which gives us few options. The other guys have even talked about starting a new band without the drummer, but starting over from scratch isn't attractive to any of us, as we've all poured ourselves into this. The ultimate win-win would be for the drummer to step up his game and make the band as good as it could be.

But if he won't, does anyone know any tricks to letting go a bit? I get so much anxiety on stage when he flubs a simple, routine song that I just want to walk off the stage. Maybe I'm being too critical, but I don't know how to calm down, relax, and let things slide. Part of the problem is that I take his refusal to practice his drums as a personal affront, and as blatant disrespect. I don't know how to get over that and keep things on the rails.

Sorry for ranting/whining. I don't want this chapter of my musical journey to be over, but I don't know how to keep going without driving myself crazy.

Thanks in advance,
Jacob

Check Craig's list...

 

[Nev375]

Think about baseball.

Seems to work for Geddy Lee, and look how great his drummer became!

 

[bassrich]

SOunds to me if y'all are having success the Band can"t be that bad and people like what they hear. Have practice more often and work on fills

 

[franklindayala]

In one of your rehearsals invite a good drummer and let him play one song. While your drummer listens.

 

[baileyboy]

I think you should finish out the remaining gigs on the calendar and move on, but don't burn bridges. I did just this with one of the bands I regularly gigged with just about a month ago. They had connections, got gigs, filled bars with friends, etc... in short, had everything one could want from a gigging band, but... the drummer was not a trained one, so could barely do anything outside of basic 4/4 time. He couldn't execute tempo changes, etc., just really bad. Sounds like your band is fairly successful, despite the mediocre drummer, but if it's not working for you, time to go. As others have stated, life is too short to waste your valuable leisure time doing that which doesn't bring happiness to you.

 

[lfmn16]

... and while a good musician ...

His tempos fluctuate greatly, he forces fills he can't play into spaces he can't fit them into, and he can't hold on to his sticks to save his life.

He's not a good musician STOP FOOLING YOURSELF.

Walk or kick him out. Life is too short to play with people like this.

 

[brianrost]

It's his band, like it or not. He's not going anywhere.

Being insulted by his refusal to practice is just silly. Either live with him as he is or quit.

 

[JMacBass65]

Just Dunning-Kruger syndrome again. No more, no less. Cognitive Bias.

This stumps me the most. Why it's important to stay and be OK with a drummer (or any musician) which is not OK with you?

The thing is. People don't think that by playing badly, and severely badly, out of tune, out of tempo is - by my book - the equivalent of saying "F' you" and giving fingers and being rude and unpolite and careless to other people around them. People thinks just swearing, cursing, being insular in words, action, manners is the ONLY thing that is not ok. Not playing well, or not being able to recognize shortcomings that needs to work on, at the same time as being frightened of their own talent, and strutting about it, is way more rude, and unacceptable behaviour to me, than anyone telling me to go "f" myself and this or that. I can't find any profanity that tops this. The main thing is, that he started it, not you.

Is there such a shortage of musicians out there?
Is there such a need, addiction for you to just play, whatever music, with whatever musicians, that you just have to put up with it? I e put up with anything?

Sooner, or later, it's going to build up, and he takes solace and comfort in it all, because you guys can cope with him, and he KNOWS this. He rides on top of everybody else, being that parasite. Show him the Dunning-Kruger Syndrome research, and ask him to read, and learn something about all things cognitive bias. It's too late, and life's too short, just move on, and don't dwell on things, or hold grudges.

You aren't paid to make some kind of samaritarian, charitable causes, and play with the people of lesser "means". I've stopped ages ago being kind (yes, Jeff Berlin still got it in my book) to those people since a) I gain absolutely nothing from/for it, and b) loses absolutely nothing from it. That "vibing" that has to occur, does occur with me around it, and I don't care. The thing that I've learned from experience is simply one thing. You try this and that, being kind and polite but in the end it always ends up in this eternal question a) IF THAT DOESN'T HELP, THEN WHAT? If it doesn't give you huge chunks of money, to keep silent, then leave. ASAP.

You must always look yourself in the mirror, and ask that question. You've tried everything and neither this nor that helped. then what? Not even plan B. No plan C. But plan Z.

I've been wondering of, if all these problems are artifacts, or result of the - sort of - Snowflake Generation kind of thing. Don't do, say anything that will even have the slighest chance of offending anyone, the slightest. At any chance. They'll always throw in these a) sexist b) ageist c)elitist argument to say you're a bad and evil person.

This is one of the harshest responses I have ever seen on TB.

Must be nice, living in such a black and white world.

Me? I've lived long enough to know that there is no perfect, EVERY situation, EVERY decision, every relationship, involves compromise, period.

To the OP - you have received some very good advice, both for and against leaving the band, for and against firing the drummer, etc.

Only a few have offered advice on how to proceed in the current situation, but those that have had some very good points. If you have decided that the advantages of staying in the current situation (good gigs, upward momentum, drummer contributes positively in other areas, etc.) outweigh the negatives, then I suggest you just accept it and relax a bit. As we all know, the shortcomings of you drummer are likely only apparent to the band, other musicians, and a very small segment of the population with increased musical awareness. The rest have no idea, if they did, you wouldn't be getting the gigs and building momentum.

 

[kerrycares]

non negotiable