Any tips on how to be ok with bad drummer?

[HamOnTheCob]

I'm not asking how to make the drummer better, how to replace him, how to tell him he's not good enough, or any of that. I'm hoping someone has a new perspective I haven't thought of for ways to keep me from losing my mind or quitting the band I've spent almost 2 years working my butt off for.

Back story:

The drummer is older than all of us, has been playing longer than any of us, and is just not very committed to improving. The issue is, he doesn't practice, and while a good musician lets layman comments like "You guys are so awesome!" roll right off like a bead of water, it seems sometimes like every compliment my drummer hears about how great we are is like a galvanization for why he doesn't need to try harder. It's maddening.

The problem is, this whole band was his idea. He named it, he put it in motion, he gathered the initial personnel, he managed every move of the band when it was in its infancy, and he has been instrumental in the business side of things - which, let's be honest, is no small contribution.

When I was approached about joining the band, the reasoning I was given for why they were replacing the guy they had before me was that he wasn't committed to the band, didn't want to rehearse, and didn't want to be an actual member of the group. He didn't want to help promote, write, or any other responsibility for a true band member. They said they wanted someone who could rehearse at least once a week, but more than likely twice a week, wanted someone who wasn't afraid to put in some work, and who could contribute ideas and move things forward. So I joined the band with a fair warning to the rest of the group that I don't do anything half-heartedly, and that I was only joining this band because the dedication they were expecting of me seemed like it must be something they all had themselves. Everyone was on the same page, I thought.

We released our first CD in June, and it has sold well locally. Everything is going well for us. We played a huge festival this summer in front of thousands of people, we've been on regional radio and tv, have shared the stage with countless big names in the past couple years, and everything just keeps getting bigger and better.

But as the opportunities get bigger and the stakes get higher, I constantly think about how much his drumming limits us. His tempos fluctuate greatly, he forces fills he can't play into spaces he can't fit them into, and he can't hold on to his sticks to save his life. He's not an awful drummer, he just NEVER PRACTICES. We've openly addressed the issues as a band, and I've been straight with him. I've told him I'd like him to find another bass player if he won't put the same time and effort into being the best he can be that the rest of us put into our own instruments.

It remains to be seen whether or not he will put in the effort, but everyone in the band is on the same page as I am. Like I said, though, this whole thing is his baby, which gives us few options. The other guys have even talked about starting a new band without the drummer, but starting over from scratch isn't attractive to any of us, as we've all poured ourselves into this. The ultimate win-win would be for the drummer to step up his game and make the band as good as it could be.

But if he won't, does anyone know any tricks to letting go a bit? I get so much anxiety on stage when he flubs a simple, routine song that I just want to walk off the stage. Maybe I'm being too critical, but I don't know how to calm down, relax, and let things slide. Part of the problem is that I take his refusal to practice his drums as a personal affront, and as blatant disrespect. I don't know how to get over that and keep things on the rails.

Sorry for ranting/whining. I don't want this chapter of my musical journey to be over, but I don't know how to keep going without driving myself crazy.

Thanks in advance,
Jacob

 

[crucislancer]

But if he won't, does anyone know any tricks to letting go a bit? I get so much anxiety on stage when he flubs a simple, routine song that I just want to walk off the stage. Maybe I'm being too critical, but I don't know how to calm down, relax, and let things slide. Part of the problem is that I take his refusal to practice his drums as a personal affront, and as blatant disrespect. I don't know how to get over that and keep things on the rails.

This part of your post really spoke to me, which I will explain in a bit. Honestly, life is too short to play with musicians that aren't interested in doing what it takes to make the band sound fantastic. I understand that it would be difficult to fire him, and I also see the reluctance to start a new band with the rest of your band mates and basically start over. However, you and your band mates need to put this guy in his place, or the band will end in animosity and regret. He needs to step up his game or quit, and if neither of those things happen, you should move on as well.

I just left a band I was in for a little over a year, and the drummer was part of the problem. The guitarist and drummer that were there when I joined quit in March, and by the end of April we had replacements. However, the dynamic had changed so much that I was starting to have second thoughts about my place in the band, and found myself to be odd man out. And the drummer, while fantastic when he was on, was hit and miss, and it showed during gigs. The last gig we played a couple of weeks ago was the final straw. None of my band mates felt the same way, but I spent the majority of the gig wondering if he was going to play the right drum pattern or go off on something completely unrelated, which he did frequently. So, that was it for me. Life is too short to play with musicians that can't bring their best to the table.

 

[Biggbass]

Sadly, I don't think there is any solution to your problem other than replacement.
I struggled thru a very similar experience for almost two years before I finally had to throw down the 'him or me' card. It just became a whipping every practice, every gig. But the gig failures were what did it for me. Then, one night after several ruined endings, forgotten arrangements, no dynamics, & pounding on the drums like a baboon, I just couldn't take it anymore...couldn't even speak to him again, and loaded out without saying a word and drove home knowing this was the end of the road with this band for one of us. The band chose to replace him two days later and lived happily ever after.

 

[RoadRanger]

If the drummer didn't write any of the words or melodies he has no ownership of them and youse guys can just take them for your new band. If you can get the master tracks you can even just have your new drummer redo the drum tracks and reissue the songs under your name.

Unless you were unwise enough to give him a songwriting credit on the released tunes?

 

[bigboy_78]

When playing with a poor drummer, I usually bring my basslines back to simple, on the beat type lines. Tight and boring is better than messy.

If I am playing with a drummer who can't fit their fills into the beat, I find a new band. I don't have time to worry about firing band members, there are plenty of other bands that need a bass player.

 

[PauFerro]

I've been there. As Pat Metheny said "better to play with a good drum machine than a bad drummer". And to the bass player it's even more critical to have someone who can hit "one" after a fill and stop the band from turning the song into a horse race where everyone wins.

At the same time, I really glad you are acknowledging this guy is strong on the business end of things. You're right, what he does is no small feat. And as someone whose kind of in his position, the time it takes to organize, promote and book the band takes away from practice time. I find the musicians get better while my own playing stagnates. If I stop being a business guy, and focus on my instrument, then the band dies.

So, I have a couple suggestions I have actually tried that helped.

1. Record the band with a click track, and then everyone does an evaluation of their own playing and maybe some general comments. See if the guy will acknowledge where he is lacking. It's amazing how good you sound to yourself, and then when you hear a recording, it sucks. It's like we are on temporary drugs when we are playing that makes everything seem wonderful, and then, when you hear it on a recording, it's like the drug has worn off and you can hear and see clearly.

2. If the guy acknowledges his deficiencies, put the time into practicing with him -- just you and him. I did this with a drummer who had all the right personality and potential ingredients, but he couldn't play jazz and had bad time. He came over to my house once a week for about two months and we practiced with a click track. We got really tight, and even coordinated accents and kick drum patterns that fit my bass line -- something that I have to let happen spontaneously in other bands. If the guy can't make personal time to practice, maybe he'll be willing to put some time in with you. It's different when someone is coming over..it's more fun and it's like a firm commitment. Use your interpersonal skills to encourage more practice between visits. And be complementary about whatever progress he makes. Help the guy and show him the progress he is making through rough recordings.

3. I actually brought in someone who had a lot of credibility in the music community to critique us as a band. Our drummer would not listen to me either about his being out of time, fills that never ended on 1, etcetera. So I brought in a guy who was a music teacher, and had a good reputation around town. Everyone knew he was coming to critique us with a view to improving ourselves. I primed the guy about general concerns I had, to help him zero in on trouble spots, and my concerns definitely included the drummer.

This guy gave the feedback I wanted, and it seemed to help the drummer.
[The cool thing about this was two years later this music teacher guy joined the band as our saxophonist, which was cool].

Here are a few ideas I haven't tried.

4. Take a video of the band, or even a recording and see if you can post it somewhere, like a private link on Youtube. Ask us to critique it after giving our musical background for credibility reasons. Do it in private messages if you don't want it to be open forum. Or, post it on an equivalent for talk bass for drummers, here and a place for guitarists so you don't seem to singling the guy out. Give him all the written feedback (and the other band members). Surely, the drummer's problems will be mentioned in the feedback along with other suggestions.

5. I hate doing this, but talk to the other guys to see if they share your concern -- it sounds like they do if they want to start their thing. Have a dedicated meeting -- tell the BL you want to meet offsite and talk about the band. This will heighten his awareness if you make it a big thing like that -- a special meeting offsite. Talk to him about his great businessmanship and how much you appreciate it. But get to the poor drumming. Again, use your interpersonal skills to give him the feedback, but make it the main focus of the meeting. Everyone contributes. I don't see it as "ganging up on the guy" if you treat his work with appreciation. Pay for dinner to smooth it over a bit. Try to commit him to practice, perhaps coupling it with suggestions #4 immediately above this one.

One thing you should NOT do, is encourage him to move off the drum chair and be your promoter. This happened to me with a band I formed, and yes, fell behind with all the practice I was giving everyone with the regular gigs I booked. I fired the guy who suggested that in a heartbeat. (There were other problems but that was the last straw). You gotta acknowledge the guy's hard work, and be really, really appreciative, while trying to help him as much as you can.

6. Do what a drummer used to do with me. When I would speed up, he would REALLY emphasize where the beat was, after saying my name. He played simpler and looked at me. It was sort of jolting at first, but in a way, he had me in a "lesson". He was like a metronome and every gig was a practice session. Could you do the same thing using your bass as the time keeper?

7. Consider giving him, only a click track in rehearsal and live performance.

Hope that helps and it works. Sounds like you have a good thing going as a band, if you can get this drumming thing worked out.

 

[Luke19Boarder]

Just drink heavily before you play with him, so you can be on the same level

 

[DirtDog]

Just drink heavily before you play with him, so you can be on the same level

This was my first thought.

 

[Yango]

Yep. Drugs too. Powerful ones.

The feeling will never go away. You'll ALWAYS be frustrated and pissed off. Just get used to it if you're not willing to make any changes.

 

[pcake]

i'd never get used to it. what did he say when you said you'd rather he find another bass player if he won't put in the same effort the rest of you do?

 

[bikeplate]

I'll save you some misery. Quit ASAP.

 

[joebar]

it likely bothered you in the beginning and too bad it has gone on this long.
if you're a good solid bassist, playing with a sub par drummer will have you doubting your ability.
I worked with a drummer that was not good in a band I was in; I eventually quit largely because of it. the ironic part is that he played way better with his other band-figure that one out...

 

[JoeWPgh]

If you can't get him to play well, try to get him to play less. If he doesn't want to practice, fine. Tell him to just keep time and nail the back beat. If he wants to play fancy, he has to maintain his chops.

 

[buldog5151bass]

If you are determined to stay, have the band listen to live shows together. Go over everyone's mistakes.

On stage lock in with the bass drum, snare, and hat, in that order. As long as you can find "one", you can keep it afloat.

I assume you aren't paying your mortgage/rent based on the band. At a certain point you may have to walk away.

 

[Jloch86]

This is like complaining about an abusive spouse or significant other (this is with all sensitivity to your situation).

You simply leave. We are in the exact band we deserve to be in. Do you deserve to be in a band with a bad drummer?

 

[InnerBass]

Willie Nelson said that 99% of the best songs were written by people who were in relationships with the wrong person.

Unless you need absolute frustration for writing inspiration - you gotta go.

 

[TigerInATrance]

We let a situation like that go for 2 years and in the end the drummer had to go. The drummer is the timepiece and without a reliable clock, the music will always suffer. The hard reality is that there is not one thing that you can do to make it easier to deal with. He will either do more work or be out. You've got a bit of success happening, but I'd bet large sums of cash that you aren't having a good time or deriving any sense of satisfaction from playing with the band. It's likely the same for everyone else in the band. The only thing you can do to "be ok with a bad drummer" is convince yourself that he's not a bad drummer. It sounds like more trouble than it's worth, honestly.

 

[bolophonic]

Impossible. You would have to be as bad as the drummer.

 

[LowNloud1]

I was wondering where my old drummer went!

You have a successful band in spite of his playing. You cannot argue with success. Whether it is his connections as promoter or his charisma in getting bookings for the band, he is getting the gigs it seems.

If your band is being asked to return, your clients are happy with what they hear. Is this what you are ready to risk?

Count your blessings.
Get some good tips from the answers you get here.
Work around his weaknesses and figure out his strengths both behind the scenes and behind the drums..

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Nev375]

I'm going to buck the trend here with my take on things. Buckle up buttercup.

We released our first CD in June, and it has sold well locally. Everything is going well for us. We played a huge festival this summer in front of thousands of people, we've been on regional radio and tv, have shared the stage with countless big names in the past couple years, and everything just keeps getting bigger and better.

It doesn't seem to be a problem for the band. Just to you. My advice is to not try and fix what isn't broken.


You are not going to change his ways. You are going to have to change the way you look at things.

Consider it a challenge to try and learn and predict his errors and lock in with them. Being off together is better than being off apart.
Embrace the concept that being off is part of being human and therefore better than mechanical perfection.
All great works of art have a flaw or eccentricity that defines them to set them apart. This guy's funky drumming is part of your band's "thing".

It is not going to make you a worse or less disciplined bassist. If anything, it will make you better. Locking into a drum macjhine is easy.
Learning how to form a psychic musical bond and lock in with another person is a rare skill. It takes practice.


But if you replace him now it will probably spoil whatever weird chemistry is working for you.