Anyone have this setup/what are your thoughts on this stack+head?

[groooooove]

in 2005 nobody would have questioned this rig. it was very, very common.

just about every backline i can remember in NYC at that time was a 4x10 with a 1x15. some places had an 8x10, though they were less common.

nowadays people will get crazy about "they should match."

the truth is, it actually can be more logical and efficient for the cabs to match. I strongly suggest it, but if you try a 2x10 with a 1x15 and dig it, knock yourself out.

 

[Wasnex]

Should be fine. I think the implication that many times is not stated in the mis-matched driver size thing is about cabs that are NOT designed to work together and therefore you have no idea if they will work together. Cabs that are designed to work well together (and I assume these Hartke cabs are) you can mix driver size with great results.

IMHO you should not make assumptions. Quite a few companies make cabs that are designed to look good together, but not designed to sound good together. I have no idea if this applies to the Hartkes or not. Maybe they are, and maybe they are not.

Rules for mixing (IMHO)

Figure out how much power the amp can make and how the available power will be split to the speakers. Make sure each speaker can handle the expected power or use extra caution to avoid blowing a cab.

Consider the sensitivity rating of each cab. If the difference is too much, you may actually loose headroom by adding the second cab.

Also, if the least efficient cab cannot handle the available power, it's a lot more likely to blow.​

Here's an example. Assume you have two 8 ohm cabs. One has a 103dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating and the other has a 95dB 1W/1m sensitivity rating.

So with 1W into the most efficient cab you get 103dB. If you connect the second 8 ohm cab, the power is split evenly so this cab will make 100dB with 1/2W. Cutting the power in half results in -3dB

The second cab in this example will make 92dB with 1/2W.

Here are the results from an online calculator. With 1W and the most efficient cab you get 103dB. With 1W and both cabs you get < 103dB. You may be better off with just the most efficient cab. This example could be a tube amp that makes the same power at either 8 ohms or 4 ohms.

Ref: sengpielaudio-calculator-coherentsources

Another way to look at this is 102.911dB 1W/1m is the combined sensitivity of both cabs.

Let's assume a tube amp rated for 300W at 2, 4, and 8 ohms.

Calculated SPL most efficient Cab = 127.77dB
Calculated SPL both cabs = 127.68dB

Adding the cab reduces headroom.

Now lets assume a solid state amp that makes 400W at 8 ohms and 800W at 4 ohms.

Calculated SPL most efficient cab (400W) = 129.02dB
Calculated SPL both cabs (800W) = 131.94dB

So in this example adding the extra cab gets you +2.91dB. Keep in mind we assume you need +3dB to clearly hear a volume change.

Also both cabs must be able to handle 400W. If one cab can only handle 250W then the total usable power is 500W total.

Calculated SPL both cabs (500W) = 129.90dB. Adding the extra cab gets you +0.88dB.

If the cab with the lowest sensitivity rating has the 250W power rating, it will be very easy to blow this cab, and you will probably never hear any advance warning that you are feeding it too much power. You may still choose to use this combination if you think it sounds good. But it's really only safe if the rig can easily play louder than you will ever need.

 

[Wasnex]

Hartke LH1000

Dual Parallel mode offers 2 x 225 watts at 8 ohms, 2 x 320 watts at 4 ohms, 2 x 545 watts at 2 ohms​

Hartke HD210

Impedance = 8 ohms
Power Handling = 500WRMS​

Hartke HD115

Impedance = 8 ohms
Power Handling = 500WRMS
​

I don't see any red flags in available specs. The speakers are rated to handle double the amps output. AFAIK Hartke does not publish sensitivity ratings for these cabs.

IMHO, if you already have the cabs, try the combination and decide for yourself.

If you don't already have the cabs...try before you buy.

Consider choosing the model of cab you think sounds best and getting a matched pair, rather than mixing.

 

[Maxi Funkl]

I have a Genz-Benz 2X10 combo when I want that extra thump I had a 1x15 Genz-Benz cab you'll be find.

 

[Reid-O]

I think that setup will work fine and sound good. I got 2 HD 210s and have been breaking them in with my Mesa and my Ashdown. They sound really good stacked.

View attachment 5063216

 

[Timmah]

as cool as the vert stack sounds something about the look just offends my sensibilities

Fair enough. I have a similar 2x210 rig that sounds great vertically, but yeah, it does look a little dweeby. And I get nervous about the tall narrow stack on janky/unstable stages.

 

[Parzival]

You know if I took the Hartke emblems off and remounted them so they weren’t sideways, no one would think anything of it.

 

[murphy]

as cool as the vert stack sounds something about the look just offends my sensibilities

When I had two Eden D210XLT cabs, I tried them vertical, but preferred the sound of two Horizontal.
I think the 210 and 15 makes a good stack
I had a Hartke 410XL and 15XL stack that I loved.

 

[kevmac]

So the setup in question I'm considering getting would be a Hartke hd115, a Hartke hd210 plus a lh1000 head. Do you guys see this as a viable option or would you suggest something else?

Nothing wrong with that set up. 2 x 225 ,320 and 545 watts at 8, 4 and 2 ohms respectfully while both cabs each handle 500w or so the specs read. You could play almost any venue with it.

 

[CentralEmporium]

Hartke LH1000

Dual Parallel mode offers 2 x 225 watts at 8 ohms, 2 x 320 watts at 4 ohms, 2 x 545 watts at 2 ohms​

Hartke HD210

Impedance = 8 ohms
Power Handling = 500WRMS​

Hartke HD115

Impedance = 8 ohms
Power Handling = 500WRMS
​

I don't see any red flags in available specs. The speakers are rated to handle double the amps output. AFAIK Hartke does not publish sensitivity ratings for these cabs.

IMHO, if you already have the cabs, try the combination and decide for yourself.

If you don't already have the cabs...try before you buy.

Consider choosing the model of cab you think sounds best and getting a matched pair, rather than mixing.

Hold on something just popped into my brain, would I be able to run any of these cabs individually in this head without blowing the speaker? Is there a setting that would let me do that?

 

[Wasnex]

Hold on something just popped into my brain, would I be able to run any of these cabs individually in this head without blowing the speaker? Is there a setting that would let me do that?

? It should be a relatively safe to run one cab on one output of the amp. The amp has two output sections rated for 225W at 8 ohms. Each cab is 8 ohms and rated for 500W.

You can run one cab on one side of the amp for 225W. For two cabs: 1. Connect one cab to each output for 225W per cab. Or 2. Connect both cabs to one output. Each cab will get 1/2 of 320W = 160W.

 

[Reid-O]

You know if I took the Hartke emblems off and remounted them so they weren’t sideways, no one would think anything of it.

My OCD would kick in. The speakers aren't centered in the cabinet when it's oriented vertically. I suppose you could alternate them, with one favoring the left, and one favoring the right.....

 

[CentralEmporium]

? It should be a relatively safe to run one cab on one output of the amp. The amp has two output sections rated for 225W at 8 ohms. Each cab is 8 ohms and rated for 500W.

You can run one cab on one side of the amp for 225W. For two cabs: 1. Connect one cab to each output for 225W per cab. Or 2. Connect both cabs to one output. Each cab will get 1/2 of 320W = 160W.

Alright thanks for the clarity man

 

[CentralEmporium]

? It should be a relatively safe to run one cab on one output of the amp. The amp has two output sections rated for 225W at 8 ohms. Each cab is 8 ohms and rated for 500W.

You can run one cab on one side of the amp for 225W. For two cabs: 1. Connect one cab to each output for 225W per cab. Or 2. Connect both cabs to one output. Each cab will get 1/2 of 320W = 160W.

Oh okay I just figured out what bridging is now this is starting to come together. I would have the potential to damage the cab if I bridged it because then I would running 750w @ 8 ohms, but with just one cable connecting the head to the cab I'll be fine. Not that you didnt explain well I just... brain be stupid sometimes.

 

[Wasnex]

Oh okay I just figured out what bridging is now this is starting to come together. I would have the potential to damage the cab if I bridged it because then I would running 750w @ 8 ohms, but with just one cable connecting the head to the cab I'll be fine. Not that you didnt explain well I just... brain be stupid sometimes.

Sorry, I didn't think you were considering bridge mode.

From the OM:

Bridge mode 1 x 750 watts @ 8 ohms , 1 x 1100 watts @ 4 ohm​

IMHO the extra headroom could be useful, but you have to be more careful and disciplined.

750W for one cab. If you run both cabs, the amp is rated to provide up to 550W to each cab. So either way the available power exceeds the speaker's power ratings. It's still relatively safe as long as the rig can get substantially louder than you actually need. However, sometimes accident occur that can produce a powerful transient. For example, you may accidently unplug the bass from the amp.

If you don't need the actually extra power, I suggest running one cab on each output instead of using bridge mode.

 

[CentralEmporium]

Sorry, I didn't think you were considering bridge mode.

From the OM:

Bridge mode 1 x 750 watts @ 8 ohms , 1 x 1100 watts @ 4 ohm​

IMHO the extra headroom could be useful, but you have to be more careful and disciplined.

750W for one cab. If you run both cabs, the amp is rated to provide up to 550W to each cab. So either way the available power exceeds the speaker's power ratings. It's still relatively safe as long as the rig can get substantially louder than you actually need. However, sometimes accident occur that can produce a powerful transient. For example, you may accidently unplug the bass from the amp.

If you don't need the actually extra power, I suggest running one cab on each output instead of using bridge mode.

Yea I would reserve bridge mode for if I decide to go with an 1000 watt cab in the future, honestly I'm kind of neurotic so I'd rather play it safe until I get something that can fully handle that power. But thats good to know the versatility of this head option, I didn't know you could run bridge mode with multiple cabs as well

 

[Wasnex]

I didn't know you could run bridge mode with multiple cabs as well

Yes the amp is safe down to 4 ohms in bridge mode. It only has one bridge mode output, but you can daisy chain through a cab for a parallel connection.
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If plug the amp into the HD210, plug a second cable into one of the extension jacks and run it to the HD115.

 

[ThisBass]

Per TB conventional wisdom, get two matching HD enclosures and stack vertically. Then again, it may sound perfectly wonderful together. I use an HD 410 in the rehearsal space.

Riis

Personally I think, regarding present forum discussions, this conventional TB wisdom can be considered as to be old school wisdom, thus obsolete wisdom rather than current status at TB.

 

[bigtone23]

My thoughts are that this particular head has two outputs that can be manipulated to balance the output of the cabs. This is cool, if one cab is farting out, it can be turned down a touch. I used to do this in the 90s when I ran a preamp into a power amp with a 2x10" on one side of the power amp and a 4x10" on the other. The 2x10" sat on top of the 4x10" and therefore would be turned down a touch to lessen it giving up and farting out sooner, but also to balance the sound from it being at ear level and the 4x10" on the floor.
Though my conventional wisdom would say to get matching cabs for the best possible performance, my pragmatism says get the 210 and 115 for those times you use one or the other. They sound and react differently from each other, and that can be a cool thing.