Anyone NOT like the SVT?

[bassfreakah]

Guys I have been playing for long time and alot of times sharing rigs, backlines and stuff like that. So i have played a bunch of rigs in live setting and nothing matches the sound of an all tube svt head and good 8x10 cab or a good 4x10. I have always wanted something small (markbass, type D amps) but nothing and I mean nothing can equal the sound. And dont see how anyone could say anything bad about it.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

As I stated earlier in this thread, the SVT has never really been my bag. It's still a great amp, though. Everytime I heard Dino Monoxelos demoing one, it piques my interest (though to be fair, Dino is like Ed Friedland: He could make anything sound awesome in his hands). One thing that will probably keep me from going the SVT route, other than not really having the sound speak to me, is the maximum 4 ohm load. That's not a bad thing per se. All of my current cabs, though, are 8 ohms. While I often use two cabs, I still want to have the option to use a single 8 ohm cab for smaller gigs.

As far as tubes vs. solid-state in reliability - I own two all-tube heads and a number of all-solid state combinations. One of my tube heads is fixed bias and the other is very easy to bias. In my experience, there is a little bit more required in the maintenance of the tube amps. Primarily, a retubing always runs the risk of having a bad tube in the batch that may not start to fail until it's been in the amp for a while (a fairly common problem when dealing with the new tubes being produced now). However, once you are sure that you have all quality tubes in there, it's smooth sailing. So yes, there is some added mainteance costs, but unless you are really financially strapped, its not enough costs that should sway your purchase decisions if it's being based solely on whether to go tube or SS.

Of course, this is all in my experience. YMMV

 

[JimmyM]

And this is what I was trying to get at with the SVT-CL. Whereas the older tube designs were made with repair in mind, the CL specifically was made using the same design principals used in more recent solid-state heads (though even the 800RB was designed with the whole "modular" component thing in mind). There is no integral magic in a tube amp making it more reliable than a solid-state head, just the willingness to do what it takes to fix it rather than scrap it when it stops functioning correctly!

svt's, even older ones, have green pcb's. and as long as they're not surface mounted (and i've yet to see surface mounted components in any ampeg product), the vast majority of techs can work on them at component level as long as they know how to solder on pcb's.

 

[sunbeast]

svt's, even older ones, have green pcb's. and as long as they're not surface mounted (and i've yet to see surface mounted components in any ampeg product), the vast majority of techs can work on them at component level as long as they know how to solder on pcb's.

The 400+ and most recent amps also use circuit boards vs. point-to-point, but a circuit board is not inherently difficult or expendable to work on- but if they weren't designed with repair in mind, it apparently makes a difference. I honestly never saw inside my CL (I learned the hard way not to mess with the insides of tube amps myself!), I'm just sharing my experience and what I was told by both the authorized Ampeg center AND the tube techs I have used in Denver for my old SVT, my Mesas, Fenders, and Musicman amps (Lord Valve/Fat Willie) and Portland (Brian Sours/Soursound). I don't know if it is components being harder to get to, troubleshoot, or work on, but neither of them will work on a CL or any of the newer Ampeg SS amps either...

 

[JimmyM]

don't know about soursound, but it's my understanding that lord valve is pretty hardcore old school when it comes to amps. the guy that worked on my b-15 and 69 svt is like that, too, although i don't know that he won't repair cl's or vr's. but there is a guy in town who will, and has, in fact, worked on the svt 3 pro i used to own. so i don't think that's a universal thing with amp repair guys.

 

[derridiandrift]

i don't think that's a universal thing with amp repair guys.

Ya, I agree. The SVT is a complicated amp that runs big voltages. I can imagine a scenario where hubris might cause a tech to call the amp unrepairable or notoriously difficult to repair, when the fact of the matter might be that the tech is lacking in the necessary experience to trouble shoot it any further than determining which board isn't working right. And getting that experience requires an investment of time on the part of the tech. Not saying that's what's going on, I'm just saying it's possible. Because the SVT has always been a pc board amp. It was never a point to point layout.

 

[murphy]

Guys I have been playing for long time and alot of times sharing rigs, backlines and stuff like that. So i have played a bunch of rigs in live setting and nothing matches the sound of an all tube svt head and good 8x10 cab or a good 4x10. I have always wanted something small (markbass, type D amps) but nothing and I mean nothing can equal the sound. And dont see how anyone could say anything bad about it.

Big Plus one.
The best bass amp I have ever heard anywhere

I could never carry that weight around, so unless backline provides an SVT....it is Markbass that gets the gig.

 

[Toolmybass]

What makes the SVT good is what is sitting under it.

Choo got that right hutz.....although ANYthing i have had sit under it, sounds great!
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[sunbeast]

don't know about soursound, but it's my understanding that lord valve is pretty hardcore old school when it comes to amps. the guy that worked on my b-15 and 69 svt is like that, too, although i don't know that he won't repair cl's or vr's. but there is a guy in town who will, and has, in fact, worked on the svt 3 pro i used to own. so i don't think that's a universal thing with amp repair guys.

Lord Valve is definitely very openly opinionated about amps- he expressed his dislike of the 400+ and lack of bias circuits with Mesa amps, but was happy to work on both the 400+ and my old D-180 and did great work with both (and everything else I ever brought to him). His shop was also usually pretty populated with older SVTs to be worked on when I'd go in there, and he also had an early one of his own that he played synth through in the shop. When I told him about my SVT-CL that was currently in the warranty center, the first thing he said was "I won't even mess with those *****s" before more or less telling me that they just were not designed to be worked on (though he didn't really have much of anything good to say about them in general, so bias may have been a part of it).
Brian Sours is a much younger guy, and definitely prefers older designs, but before recently would still repair even older solid-state stuff, and is pretty much the guy for tube amp repair in Portland (he is now focusing much more on building his own tube amps, including the amps used by Modest Mouse- he also turned my old guitarist's Laney into a souped up Marshall Plexi)- like I mentioned before, his wall of waitlisted repairs included many old-school SVTs and V4s, which made me wonder why I rarely see anyone actually using one in town! I didn't have my CL anymore when I moved to Portland, but I was just talking to him about my previous tube amp journey when we first met, and he also said that he didn't take in CLs for repair work...

Ya, I agree. The SVT is a complicated amp that runs big voltages. I can imagine a scenario where hubris might cause a tech to call the amp unrepairable or notoriously difficult to repair, when the fact of the matter might be that the tech is lacking in the necessary experience to trouble shoot it any further than determining which board isn't working right. And getting that experience requires an investment of time on the part of the tech. Not saying that's what's going on, I'm just saying it's possible. Because the SVT has always been a pc board amp. It was never a point to point layout.

I could definitely see this with some techs, but these are both guys with plenty of willingness and experience with repairing old SVTs and most anything else with tubes.

 

[FrankGravis]

Before I started playing Markbass, I used to request Ampegs for tours and one-nighters when rental gear was part of that night's playing agenda. I would request SVTs in particular. As a result, I have played MANY different SVTs, both rented and part of a house backline. I have found them to be very inconsistent from amp to amp. I admit some of these inconsistencies are related to how hard they've been played, how they have been maintained, and their pedigree. When an SVT is good, it's great, but when it isn't, it's pretty bad, and I have played some really horrible SVTs. The best one I ever played was an oldie that had the strange XLR-like speaker connector. It belonged to the bandleader who took great care of it. I ran it with an Acoustic 370 folded-horn cabinet as an extension speaker. Great sound! On the other end of the spectrum, there was an SVT at a club in NYC (S.O.B.'s) that was part of the house backline. It got one of the most god-awful sounds of any amp I have ever played. It might still be there, but I haven't played that place in years. I have been a Markbass endorser and user for years and have never looked back. Never use anything else.

 

[JimmyM]

The best one I ever played was an oldie that had the strange XLR-like speaker connector. It belonged to the bandleader who took great care of it.

ya, the old ones had the jess oliver 4 pin xlr connector that prevented the amp from coming out of standby when the speaker wasn't plugged in. shame it never caught on...i still think it's a great idea.

 

[FrankGravis]

ya, the old ones had the jess oliver 4 pin xlr connector that prevented the amp from coming out of standby when the speaker wasn't plugged in. shame it never caught on...i still think it's a great idea.

I agree, JimmyM. Great idea.

 

[waleross]

My SvT CL stays in my house on a dolly, I got it last year new and it is "what they say they are". +1 on Ampegs being inconsistant,I sent (2) back right away. It is pretty quiet and still under warranty which makes me smile........

 

[One Drop]

Before I started playing Markbass, I used to request Ampegs for tours and one-nighters when rental gear was part of that night's playing agenda. I would request SVTs in particular. As a result, I have played MANY different SVTs, both rented and part of a house backline. I have found them to be very inconsistent from amp to amp. I admit some of these inconsistencies are related to how hard they've been played, how they have been maintained, and their pedigree. When an SVT is good, it's great, but when it isn't, it's pretty bad, and I have played some really horrible SVTs. The best one I ever played was an oldie that had the strange XLR-like speaker connector. It belonged to the bandleader who took great care of it. I ran it with an Acoustic 370 folded-horn cabinet as an extension speaker. Great sound! On the other end of the spectrum, there was an SVT at a club in NYC (S.O.B.'s) that was part of the house backline. It got one of the most god-awful sounds of any amp I have ever played. It might still be there, but I haven't played that place in years. I have been a Markbass endorser and user for years and have never looked back. Never use anything else.

Very good points. I wonder how many people have heard an improperly biased or maintained one, or one with clapped out tubes, and based a judgment on that.

Funny you should mention the SOB SVT, someone had recently mentioned it as an example in another thread, (or maybe earlier in this one?) and I replied that it was the worst sounding 810 I've ever heard, just a distorted low volume botttomless grind.

 

[FrankGravis]

Very good points. I wonder how many people have heard an improperly biased or maintained one, or one with clapped out tubes, and based a judgment on that.

Funny you should mention the SOB SVT, someone had recently mentioned it as an example in another thread, (or maybe earlier in this one?) and I replied that it was the worst sounding 810 I've ever heard, just a distorted low volume botttomless grind.

Perfect description of the sound of that particular amp. I felt utterly helpless as I was playing it, feeling like I was unable to put a decent bottom under the band I was playing with.

 

[okcrum]

don't know about soursound, but it's my understanding that lord valve is pretty hardcore old school when it comes to amps. the guy that worked on my b-15 and 69 svt is like that, too, although i don't know that he won't repair cl's or vr's. but there is a guy in town who will, and has, in fact, worked on the svt 3 pro i used to own. so i don't think that's a universal thing with amp repair guys.

The only reason any tech wouldn't work on a CL or VR is that they don't understand how a window comparator circuit works. That's a key part of the tube protection circuit that's different from the older SVTs.

That also means they probably wouldn't service any SS rig either, since they're harder to understand. Forget Class D.

 

[JimmyM]

The only reason any tech wouldn't work on a CL or VR is that they don't understand how a window comparator circuit works. That's a key part of the tube protection circuit that's different from the older SVTs.

just googled it and didn't really understand what it is or how it relates to the svt. so if you have some time, i'd be happy to hear what it does.

 

[sunbeast]

The only reason any tech wouldn't work on a CL or VR is that they don't understand how a window comparator circuit works. That's a key part of the tube protection circuit that's different from the older SVTs.

That also means they probably wouldn't service any SS rig either, since they're harder to understand. Forget Class D.

Both of the guys in question do (or have done, in Soursound's case) plenty of work on solid-state amps, though you may well be right about the Class D part. Maybe it is just a matter of bias/ personal preference for both of them, as they both have a good enough reputation as techs to have a 6 month (or longer) repair wait-list and can certainly afford to turn down jobs they don't feel like doing. Unfortunately, I never had much luck in Denver finding any other consistent/reliable/recommended tube techs and have heard of few in Portland either, which is a shame. Seems like there used to be alot more, but it has to be a tough way to make a living.

For what it's worth, all I'm doing is repeating what both of those guys said to me RE: the SVT-CL, so the VR may be a different story, and I don't have any motivation to try to justify their reasoning either! This isn't really what this thread is supposed to be about though, so I will concede

 

[okcrum]

just googled it and didn't really understand what it is or how it relates to the svt. so if you have some time, i'd be happy to hear what it does.

Jimmy, there are 6 of them, one for each 6550. They look at the cathode current in each tube to set the bias lights in the newer design. Their outputs add together in groups of three for each red/green light pair. That's how you get the high-good-low bias indication from the lights. In parallel with each of those there's also 6 little averaging circuits that look at the current in each tube to trip the fault relay on a tube overcurrent (along with other inputs, like good B+ and filament volts).

 

[okcrum]

...
For what it's worth, all I'm doing is repeating what both of those guys said to me RE: the SVT-CL, so the VR may be a different story, and I don't have any motivation to try to justify their reasoning either! This isn't really what this thread is supposed to be about though, so I will concede

No need to concede anything. If they're the best guys in town for your gear, then that's who you'd use. I was just feeling smarmy after a long Sun. nite gig, and apologies for the OT.