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Anyone rockin an 18?
- Thread starter BassOnTheSide
- Start date
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
I still haul around a 1967 or 1968 Acoustic 360. It's got a sound I happen to like, and it will make everything flap. The one problem with it is that it is intensely directional up close. Farther away, it can cave in chest cavities at lower volumes, but it's hard for the guitarist on the other side of the stage to hear. I haven't done this yet, but I'm thinking I'll plug in the little Carvin combo and run it like the preamp is just an active bass. That might solve the problem. Or it might blow up the combo. I'll find out, but I'll keep schlepping around the 360, since it's got it's own sound.
awesome a b36a ! how can I say this right. on paper according to a audiophile it's one of the worst horns frequency response wise as a "sub" the ffrequency response is not flat at all has a huge 200 to 400Hz peak and the bass drops off quickly below 70hz. with any folded horn there is a peak including the 301. the 301 is much "flatter" though. so often the horns are stacked sideways and as you add more cabinets your creating coupling or a larger mouth and bass response increases and the response bump or peak actually flattens. so ask any DJ about a B36 and it's probably the most favorite and famous sub bin. any classic reggae dj or electronic music drum n bass event would have nothing else but a vega sub. that classic low mid bump and stacking 4 to 8 bins creates a classic crushing bass sound for reggae or drum n bass. in fact hearing dnb through a vega wall is a absolute pleasure. anyways I would use a matching pair of 301s there would be a extreme null zone or all kinds of phase problems with mismatched horns. now matching horns. the bass on stage is felt it's true deep bass. anybody claiming horns have no bass is full of #### and never stood next to a stack of horn loaded bins. the myth they "project" is bs too. most players don't understand that normal direct radiating speakers lack bass. what we " hear" is 60hz and up there is actually a lot of distortion and harmonics created by speakers even when clean. and a string instrument has a lot of harmonics as well. when you stand close next to a horn room reflections create a null zone and the horn itself suppresses harmonic distortion that is more audible from a normal direct radiating speakers. so when standing in front of them they seem "louder" same phenomenon where tube watts are louder than solid state watts. the tube watts have more harmonic content so they seem "louder"
step further away from the horn and the null zone goes away. so you hear all the harmonics and it's "louder" anyways on stage the midrange changes with 2 301s and
extra bass you "feel" is uunbelievable. out in the audience they hear the full harmonics and unique tone a horn creates. and yes with 6 to 12db more efficient. were talking 300 watts can do more damage than 1000plus watts of direct radiating speakers. just be careful when you eq cause yes it sounds different close up than far away. and getting out of the "null" is no problem on a decent size stage. it's not 20 or 30 feet like many say. it's only a few feet and u can use the sliders on the 370 to cut or push the classic folded horn bump. likewise the bright switch is specifically designed to brighten the roll off on the vega 18. when you use the bright switch on other cabs it doesn't make sense. kick it on with the factory cabinet it was designed for. it makes absolute sense
awesome a b36a ! how can I say this right. on paper according to a audiophile it's one of the worst horns frequency response wise as a "sub" the ffrequency response is not flat at all has a huge 200 to 400Hz peak and the bass drops off quickly below 70hz. with any folded horn there is a peak including the 301. the 301 is much "flatter" though. so often the horns are stacked sideways and as you add more cabinets your creating coupling or a larger mouth and bass response increases and the response bump or peak actually flattens. so ask any DJ about a B36 and it's probably the most favorite and famous sub bin. any classic reggae dj or electronic music drum n bass event would have nothing else but a vega sub. that classic low mid bump and stacking 4 to 8 bins creates a classic crushing bass sound for reggae or drum n bass. in fact hearing dnb through a vega wall is a absolute pleasure. anyways I would use a matching pair of 301s there would be a extreme null zone or all kinds of phase problems with mismatched horns. now matching horns. the bass on stage is felt it's true deep bass. anybody claiming horns have no bass is full of #### and never stood next to a stack of horn loaded bins. the myth they "project" is bs too. most players don't understand that normal direct radiating speakers lack bass. what we " hear" is 60hz and up there is actually a lot of distortion and harmonics created by speakers even when clean. and a string instrument has a lot of harmonics as well. when you stand close next to a horn room reflections create a null zone and the horn itself suppresses harmonic distortion that is more audible from a normal direct radiating speakers. so when standing in front of them they seem "louder" same phenomenon where tube watts are louder than solid state watts. the tube watts have more harmonic content so they seem "louder"
step further away from the horn and the null zone goes away. so you hear all the harmonics and it's "louder" anyways on stage the midrange changes with 2 301s and
extra bass you "feel" is uunbelievable. out in the audience they hear the full harmonics and unique tone a horn creates. and yes with 6 to 12db more efficient. were talking 300 watts can do more damage than 1000plus watts of direct radiating speakers. just be careful when you eq cause yes it sounds different close up than far away. and getting out of the "null" is no problem on a decent size stage. it's not 20 or 30 feet like many say. it's only a few feet and u can use the sliders on the 370 to cut or push the classic folded horn bump. likewise the bright switch is specifically designed to brighten the roll off on the vega 18. when you use the bright switch on other cabs it doesn't make sense. kick it on with the factory cabinet it was designed for. it makes absolute sense
LOL! I know all that bad rap and rushed out to buy it anyway!
I thought as much, just cause the 301 and B36 are close cousins doesn’t mean they will couple up nice. The only time I tried the B36 so far was with my son in the basement, put some dub and disco and stuff through and really shook the house. Drove a 30Hz tone (oh yes...30) as loud as I dared and felt seasick afterwards!
I’m planning on building a copy 301 with 1/2" Baltic birch and I might use the 188EB from the B36 (it’s supposed to have an 189E but it turns out to be 188) for authenticity. This might sound sacrilegious but I`m even considering a front ported 301......(?).
I have an SM400 that Im using for retro drive BTW but am looking to pounce on any 371 that might show up on the radar. Boy I have a long list of slave chores for my wife I tell ya.
In the meantime I`ll use the single 301/2x210 biamp rig Im working on now for bass for the big outdoor show (no PA support thank you very much) and I`ll try to convince the band to let me use the B36 as big mid stage sub for drum kit and keys (just the once I guess) and I’ll try it as a grunge bass driver in practice. Wè`ll see in sound check if it gets out of control!
I’ll still also couple 301 & B36 in practice for fun and cause I’m a stubborn bugger (and am maybe hard of hearing)!
Thanks for the great response!
EDIT: I need to make the ACOUSTIC badge movable so that I can stack horizontally and rotate the badge so that it is parallel to the ground.
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I can not imagine using 18s these days. I had the 360s. 3xs the volume 40 feet out, not so great on stage when the FOH has you running at 2 so you don't over drive the PA. Also needing a truck to move them, can be an issue. I also gig with a B-18 and B-15 combo'ed for a year. I do not remember that being too special, but they looked cool. I think my 2x10 cab puts out as much low end with a better punch than an 18. Just IMO.
I'm using an Acoustic 301 for my (more or less) clean tone in a multiple (2 or 3) amps setup.
I totally loooove the tone of this cab just on its own.
Pedalwise, Octaver, Meatbox and dark ODs sound great too.
For fuzz and aggressive distortion I like other cabs better.
This combination here puts out an amazing tone:
I totally loooove the tone of this cab just on its own.
Pedalwise, Octaver, Meatbox and dark ODs sound great too.
For fuzz and aggressive distortion I like other cabs better.
This combination here puts out an amazing tone:
i don't regularly use an 18", but i do have an 8 ohm black widow 18" available: when driven by my GK class D amp: huge lows and volume, of course, but also a difference in 'articulation' that i actually like. for me the downside is size and weight. i just don't play a lot of gigs where it would be practical to displace other stage gear. i mostly use a smallish combo and occasionally pair it with a 15". but i do like the sound i can get from the 18! but: if i wasn't as old: i think i'd try to use it regularly.
I had a Cerwin Vega B36MF. an 18 in a folded enclosure with a 12 in "tweeter". I had the center cap(whatever it is called) replaced with an aluminum one at New England Speaker to increase brights. With the GK800RB this rig could and did, cover a 5,000 head crowd without help from FOH. I got sick of carrying the rig around for bar gigs and sold it. I'd buy that cab again in a heartbeat if I could find one for sale
Im wondering if I can replicate that by sticking one of my 210s on top of my B36 and using a crossover.
Someone suggested that on this or another thread (was that you?).
The GK800B was a biamp system. The 300 watt amp fed the 18 and I think the 12 got 100. I guess you could do it with a crossover
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
Yes. It's been reconed, but it's original. I don't remember which one it is. The early one they had problems with, only I haven't had problems. It was already reconed when I got it.
Gaolee
Official leathers tester and crash dummy
That makes a lot of sense, and reading through your post explains why I do some of the things I do. They were intuitive, not scientific. Now, perhaps I know a little better the reasons and can fine tune. There's absolutely no question that a big ol' folded horn sounds different in the audience than it does up close. I thought it had something to do with the way sound ends up with standing waves or cancellations of some kind from the upper and lower openings in the enclosure. Whatever it is, it make playing an amplified bass very much like playing an unamplified upright. You have to just trust your technique and trust that it really does sound like what you think it does.awesome a b36a ! how can I say this right. on paper according to a audiophile it's one of the worst horns frequency response wise as a "sub" the ffrequency response is not flat at all has a huge 200 to 400Hz peak and the bass drops off quickly below 70hz. with any folded horn there is a peak including the 301. the 301 is much "flatter" though. so often the horns are stacked sideways and as you add more cabinets your creating coupling or a larger mouth and bass response increases and the response bump or peak actually flattens. so ask any DJ about a B36 and it's probably the most favorite and famous sub bin. any classic reggae dj or electronic music drum n bass event would have nothing else but a vega sub. that classic low mid bump and stacking 4 to 8 bins creates a classic crushing bass sound for reggae or drum n bass. in fact hearing dnb through a vega wall is a absolute pleasure. anyways I would use a matching pair of 301s there would be a extreme null zone or all kinds of phase problems with mismatched horns. now matching horns. the bass on stage is felt it's true deep bass. anybody claiming horns have no bass is full of #### and never stood next to a stack of horn loaded bins. the myth they "project" is bs too. most players don't understand that normal direct radiating speakers lack bass. what we " hear" is 60hz and up there is actually a lot of distortion and harmonics created by speakers even when clean. and a string instrument has a lot of harmonics as well. when you stand close next to a horn room reflections create a null zone and the horn itself suppresses harmonic distortion that is more audible from a normal direct radiating speakers. so when standing in front of them they seem "louder" same phenomenon where tube watts are louder than solid state watts. the tube watts have more harmonic content so they seem "louder"
step further away from the horn and the null zone goes away. so you hear all the harmonics and it's "louder" anyways on stage the midrange changes with 2 301s and
extra bass you "feel" is uunbelievable. out in the audience they hear the full harmonics and unique tone a horn creates. and yes with 6 to 12db more efficient. were talking 300 watts can do more damage than 1000plus watts of direct radiating speakers. just be careful when you eq cause yes it sounds different close up than far away. and getting out of the "null" is no problem on a decent size stage. it's not 20 or 30 feet like many say. it's only a few feet and u can use the sliders on the 370 to cut or push the classic folded horn bump. likewise the bright switch is specifically designed to brighten the roll off on the vega 18. when you use the bright switch on other cabs it doesn't make sense. kick it on with the factory cabinet it was designed for. it makes absolute sense
I have a van, so that's how the transportation works. I find the big folded horn easier to deal with than a 410, for example. It's like pushing a hand truck, where smaller cabs are awkward back breakers. With no van, I would have a different opinion, no doubt.
Plus, it looks outrageous. Most people don't know, but there's the occasional eyebrow that goes up when it comes out.
How did the dust cap swap sound? Did it only effect the highs?
I thunk about trying on my 15.
The rig sounded dead, no brights. I went to New England Speaker to ask about a different 12 or a tweeter. The guy behind the counter said " let me change the "whatever it's called" to an aluminum one" Took about 5 minutes. He charged me something like 5 bucks. It made all the difference in the world. I also lost the burlap grill cloth and added a steel grill. I don't know if this had any effect
Nice... I might try it.Going to try biamp with 4 sealed 5" mids. Crossover goes from 100 to 1K IIRC. It sounds good now but like to meddle 
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