Anyone Used an EBS Valve Drive?

[Tacopastorius]

Yeah, I agree. It could sound like anything on someone else's (or a store's) setup. I don't anticipate having to return it, but I do feel better getting it from somewhere that I know it won't be a big deal, and as I said, I won't have to pay tax or shipping with them.

 

[Volume4]

I had one and it is an excellent sounding pedal.

It's a great pedal but not because of the tubes. EBS could probably make another version of the pedal without the tubes for less that sounds just as good.

It really bothered me that there are orange LED's behind the tubes to simulate a tube actually getting real voltage. Thats cheesy.

I have the Ampeg Micro-VR setup and I love it....I find a Phat Phuk B does a nice job of warming it up a little and adding some extra tube like sound. I don't really think the amp needs much if any warming up though, it's a pretty warm sounding amp by itself to my ears.

Not knocking the pedal, it does a very good job but it is way overpriced, not pedalboard friendly, huge, needs its own power supply wall wart and costs as much as the Micro-VR head itself.

Just some things to consider.

jmho and ymmv

 

[Tacopastorius]

Does the tube not actually get voltage? What is it there for then?

 

[scotch]

I had one and it is an excellent sounding pedal.

It's a great pedal but not because of the tubes. EBS could probably make another version of the pedal without the tubes for less that sounds just as good.

It really bothered me that there are orange LED's behind the tubes to simulate a tube actually getting real voltage. Thats cheesy.

I have the Ampeg Micro-VR setup and I love it....I find a Phat Phuk B does a nice job of warming it up a little and adding some extra tube like sound. I don't really think the amp needs much if any warming up though, it's a pretty warm sounding amp by itself to my ears.

Not knocking the pedal, it does a very good job but it is way overpriced, not pedalboard friendly, huge, needs its own power supply wall wart and costs as much as the Micro-VR head itself.

Just some things to consider.

jmho and ymmv

While the orange led is definitely an aesthetic gimmick & has nothing to do with tone, it may behoove you to learn a little more about what different voltages applied to a preamp tube can mean!

Depending on the entire circuits architecture, higher voltages often = more headroom and less clipping. Operating a tube at lower voltages can help to optimize it for increased distortion. For an overdrive pedal, sort of makes sense - doesn't it? That's not to say that high voltages applied to the plates cannot also be used for getting overdrive (and sounding great as well)- it's just not the only way.

Don't discount every low-voltage tube pre that you see. There's a lot more to the equation.

 

[Volume4]

Does the tube not actually get voltage? What is it there for then?

It gets voltage...just not much voltage.

What is it there for?

Marketing hype



Like I said, if you get one I'm sure you'll like it.. I did...it is an excellent pedal.

Let me run this by you though....a hyothetical.....Tech 21 designs the popular VT pedal but instead of what we know it as now, it is introduced with a tube getting minimal voltage and doing little if anything with everything else being the same. It would still be a popular and great sounding pedal....it would also cost more and people would swear it's the tube.

A 12AX7 is a great for tube distortion and when run full voltages as in a regular tube amp..it will add some warmth.

But in general, what we think of "tube warmth" comes from power tubes and/or a combo of pre/power tubes....it also comes from Germanium transistors, Mosfets and JFETS.

Starved for voltage 12AX7's are for distortion....not tube warmth.

The EBS will warm up your sound....so will many other less expensive tubeless pedals.

If I'm wrong, someone please educate me.

 

[Volume4]

While the orange led is definitely an aesthetic gimmick & has nothing to do with tone, it may behoove you to learn a little more about what different voltages applied to a preamp tube can mean!

Depending on the entire circuits architecture, higher voltages often = more headroom and less clipping. Operating a tube at lower voltages can help to optimize it for increased distortion. For an overdrive pedal, sort of makes sense - doesn't it? That's not to say that high voltages applied to the plates cannot also be used for getting overdrive (and sounding great as well)- it's just not the only way.

Don't discount every low-voltage tube pre that you see. There's a lot more to the equation.

Good post. I agree

However, does the OP want a pedal to add wamth to his rig or have some monster clipping distortion?

If you want both...then the EBS becomes more attractive. In fact my guess is the distortion side of the pedal could benefit from the tube being there while the warmer/fattening things up/OD side of the pedal is a result of a good design, good parts like that of a traditional OD pedal.

 

[Tacopastorius]

I am mostly in it for the warmth, but I will use the distortion sometimes. I was aware that the Valve Drive was pushing the tube with a low voltage, I just didn't realize it wasn't even enough to make the tube glow, having not actually used one yet. Seems like you could have some kind of voltage selector knob that you could just turn to where you like it... but isn't that kind of what the gain does?

 

[scotch]

Preamp tubes never glow that bright.

Unless something is wrong.

Again, there's a heck of a lot more to a tube preamp circuit than just the tube. In my opinion, the "warmth" of the Valve Drive has a lot to do with the Fender-style tone stack! On the other hand, I did extensive annotated tube-rolling with my Valve Drive. This is one of the rare inexpensive tube pre's that really does sound different with different tubes! Is it an all-tube amp in a box? Of course not (I don't believe such an animal truly exists), but the tube in this pedal is an integral part of it's sound.

Don't let someone with "low-voltage bias syndrome" steer you wrong!

 

[Volume4]

Don't let someone with "low-voltage bias syndrome" steer you wrong!

In my defense, there are plenty of tube pedals and hybrid amps out there where the 12AX7 is little more than a pilot light.

Perhaps the EBS is not one of them....I was just thinking that since the OP wanted a pedal to "warm up a SS amp" that the EBS at $300 was perhaps not the best option for that purpose and he is thinking that the EBS is the answer because it happens to have an actual tube in it.

Like I said I owned it and was very impressed. I bought mine used and I liked it.

 

[scotch]

In my defense, there are plenty of tube pedals and hybrid amps out there where the 12AX7 is little more than a pilot light.

Perhaps the EBS is not one of them....I was just thinking that since the OP wanted a pedal to "warm up a SS amp" that the EBS at $300 was perhaps not the best option for that purpose and he is thinking that the EBS is the answer because it happens to have an actual tube in it.

Like I said I owned it and was very impressed. I bought mine used and I liked it.

You have totally valid points! Many tube preamps really gain little from the valve(pun intended). The EBS unit is not one of them, however.

 

[Tacopastorius]

So how is the Fender tone stack any different from anything else, other than the order of the knobs?

 

[scotch]

So how is the Fender tone stack any different from anything else, other than the order of the knobs?

Well, the biggest thing is to remember that the Bass & Treble "boost", while the mid essentially "cuts". To get set the eq 'flat', you turn the bass and treble almost all the way down (counter-clockwise) and turn the mids all the way up (clockwise).

Also, the knobs are slightly 'interactive'. That is to say that cranking the treble (for instance) will slightly reduce bass. It sounds convoluted, but the net result is generally very pleasing sounds.

Google search "Fender Tone Stack", "passive eq", etc...

 

[Tacopastorius]

Well I know the positions for setting the eq flat, but I don't see how that contributes to the tube sound, as you were saying.

 

[scotch]

Well I know the positions for setting the eq flat, but I don't see how that contributes to the tube sound, as you were saying.

"Tube tone" and "warm" aren't necessarily the same thing. Sure, tubes can sound warm- but also bright, clean, crunchy, etc... There is no 1 "tube sound", there are many archetypal flavors.

The tube itself plays a role, but so does it's implementation in the circuit- as well as the numerous other components in the circuit.

Passive eq's (like on the EBS) tend to sound very "musical" and pleasant regardless of setting. This is a big part of their popularity! It makes it difficult to dial in a "bad" sound. The Valve Drive never really goes into 'harsh' territory, regardless of eq or gain settings. A lot of this is due to the restrictive, yet very usable eq! The Fender Tone Stack has passed the test of time & remained popular for a reason. Also, check out "Baxandall" and "resistive/capacitive eq" for history on the classic Ampeg B-15 eq circuit! Another hard-to-make-sound-bad eq.

 

[scotch]

It sounds like the bottom line is that you don't really 'love' the overall sound/eq of your micro-vr, right? If warm is what you want, a good tube pre could definitely help! A few other options would be:
- get a different amp that already sounds more "warm" to you
- use a better eq that lends otself to warmer tones (Xotic Bass RC Booster would work well, or a Barber Linden eq pedal)
- perhaps try a different speaker cab


The more I think about it, if you don't want a little overdrive as well- maybe the Valve Drive is more than you need. It definitely does "warm", but so do the smaller, cheaper Linden and RC pedals.

I've played the Micro VR rig myself & remember it sounding really good with decent onboard eq. I think I could make that rig sound warm to my ears, anyways.

 

[Tacopastorius]

I am not complaining about the Micro VR, I like it a lot, but I am always looking to improve. I normally wouldn't have gotten a solid state head, but this thing sounded really nice, and it's super convenient, being tiny and modular, and it has a MOSFET too. And I do want a little overdrive, just not a fuzz sound. I haven't gotten to experiment with this thing much yet, because it is new and my new bass is still under construction (using a crappy one til my neck and the rest of the electronics arrive in the mail). But as much good stuff as I have heard about the EBS, I just wanted to find out more and see if it would be something that could take my tone to the next level.

 

[jimmyjames77]

The Valve drive which I use ALL the time in my chain is a great pedal. It REALLY thickens up the tone of any bass. Solid bass. With out it there is a fundamental that is missing. This is my use with the vintage channel. I don't use the other. Find one cheap and try it, if you don't like it flip it. : )

 

[Tacopastorius]

I would love to get one cheap, but that seems to be a rather elusive task.

 

[cheapbasslovin]

@ Volume4:

Are you sure that it is low voltage inside? Its power requirements are 12VAC and the manual cautions about hazardous voltages. I know my Muff''n runs up to 300v and above and it wouldn't be hard to imagine the Valve Drive being transformed the same way.

I always assumed that the Valve Drive was a high voltage pedal with a low voltage supply and a transformer inside.

 

[Tacopastorius]

Yes, the tube is run at a low voltage.