Anyone using extra heavy gauge strings?

[Root 5]

I called DR today to ask them what kinds of custom sets they have and it turns out you can get pretty heavy with it. I asked if they could do a 60-80-105-120 set, and they said the can, as well as other options.

I would be using these most likely for standard tuning, but of course there's the option to down tune with these gauges. Does anyone have any experience using extra heavy strings?

What are the tonal differences? Any downsides?

I wouldn’t be using standard tuning with those gauges. Far too much tension on the neck.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

60 80 100 120 XL Rounds ( custom singles) work good in DGCF. Around 200lbf in total. No problem

There are some manufacturers that do a straight up 60-120 set of rounds ( Marked with asterisk . Dunlop , Galli and SIT), otherwise you have to get the gauges via a 5 string set .Dunlop is about the only one offering 60-120 in Flats.

These are long scale sets


DR

DR Hi-Beams LR5-40 ( 5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Round core

DR Lo-Rider LH5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex core


DR Fat-Beams RB5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Round core

DR DDT DDT5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex core


DR Black Beauties BKB5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Coated Stainless Steel
Round core


DR Dragon Skin DBS5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Coated Stainless Steel
Round Core


DR Pure Blues PB5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Quantum Nickel
Round core

DR Dragon Skin DBQ5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Coated Quantum Nickel
Round core



DR Sunbeams NLR5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Round core


DR Nickel Lo-Rider NLH5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

DR NEON NGB5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Coated Nickel Plated Steel
Round core


DR Red Devils RDB5-40 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Coated Nickel Plated Steel
Round core

---------


Dunlop Stainless Steel Flatwound DBFS40120 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex core


*Dunlop Standard Series DBN60120 (4 string)
Gauges 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core


Dunlop Standard Series DBN40120 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

Dunlop Standard Series DBN40120T (5 string with tapered B)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core


Dunlop Standard Series DBN40120 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

Dunlop Standard Series DBN40120T (5 string with tapered B)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core


Dunlop Standard Series DBS40120 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex core

Dunlop Standard Series DBS40120T (5 string with tapered B)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex core

Dunlop Super Bright Stainless Steel DBSBS40120 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex core


Dunlop Super Bright Nickel Wound DBSBN (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core


---------

GALLI


Galli EB Coated Nickel Plated Steel EB40120 (5 String)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Coated Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

Galli Synthesis Procoated CSN40120 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Coated Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

Galli RSB Nickels RSB60120 (4 string)
Gauges 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

Galli RSB Nickels RSB40120 (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

-----------



La Bella

La Bella RXN-5A (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 118 (close enough to 120)
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex Core


La Bella RXS-5A (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 118
Stainless Steel
Hex Core
--------

SIT


SIT Power Wound Nickel NR60120L (4 string)
Gauges 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated
Hex core


SIT Power Wound Nickel NR540120L (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Plated Steel
Hex core

SIT Foundation Nickels FN540120L (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Alloy
Hex core

SIT Foundation Stainless
FS540120L (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex core

SIT Fusion Wound Nickel
NRB540120L (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Nickel Overwrap
92/8 Phosphor Bronze underwrap
Hex core

SIT Fusion Wound Stainless
SRB540120L (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel Overwrap
92/8 Phosphor Bronze underwrap
Hex core

SIT Power Steel Stainless
SR540120L (5 string)
Gauges 40 60 80 100 120
Stainless Steel
Hex Core

Newtone in the U.K can do up custom 60-120 nickel plated singles. Pyramid in Germany can do the same in Pure Nickels

 

[Prodigus Filius]

I can’t possibly imagine what you would gain in tone would be worth the damage you’d cause to your bass and hands in the long run.

Also, wouldn’t you need to move the bridge saddles much further back than your bridge probably allows, at least for the E string?

Downtuning to D standard eliminates worrying about neck wrecking.
D'addario does a 4 string balanced set of XL Nickels, 160BT gauges 50 67 90 120. The tension it lists assume E standard tuning. Averaging out at 50lbf per string. That set has about the same tension in E Standard as XL gauges 60 80 100 120 in D standard. The averaged out tension being 50lbf or so. Although the actual tension of the 60 and 80 tuned C2 and F2 is a bit higher. But nothing problematic . The tensions for the XL's in
DGCF Tuning thus,

Gauges 60 80 100 120



D1/.120/39.08lbf
G1/.100/49.07lbf
C2/.080/56.70lbf
F2/.060/57.84lbf

TT=202.69lbf

This is about 50lbf less than the Roto88's 50 75 95 110 tuned E standard.

 

[Swerve]

I use DR Pure Blues 50-110 (PB-50) in standard tuning on a P bass. I love the feel of thick strings. Tension isn’t really that different from hex core 45-105.

 

[toastw]

Immediate downside, to me, is filing the nut down to fit those thick strings.

 

[bassdude51]

How strong is your bass's neck?

Yes! The #1 concern.

 

[micguy]

A short Physics lesson: The tension on a string goes up with the square of the frequency you want to tune it to. Bass strings are tuned in fourths, which is a frequency ratio of 4:3 from one string to the next. Squaring that, you get 16/9, or.....1.78ish. So, you're asking your bass neck and the core wire of your G string to withstand 78% more force than the nominal force they were designed to handle. Now, most things in our world have some margin for error, but 78% is a lot.

Another (practical) way of looking at this is to take a look at a string tension chart. GHS has one online that you can look at. What is the string tension for a .060 Boomer tuned to G? Well....they list tensions at D (where it was designed to operate), and below a bit, and also above...up to F. At that point, the numbers on the chart stop. G is 2 semitones higher - about 25% more force than the maximum they publish. They don't publish numbers for tunings higher than that, because....(I'm assuming) they probably don't want you to operate it up there. So, you want to operate a bass with 4 strings, all of which are well beyond where the manufactures consider to be reasonable tuning/tension.

I do a lot of setups for folks that I know. If you bring a bass to me where you're running those gauges at E standard (or even D standard) tuning, we'd have a conversation about what you're doing - I'm not going to do setups that are going to result in damage to things. A neck under that much stress is not going to be straight for very long.

Short answer...while I applaud different thinking, this is simply a bad idea. You won't kill anybody with the pursuit, but your bass neck (assuming the truss rod doesn't break trying to set the thing up) won't take that kind of tension for very long.

 

[FenderP]

I wouldn’t be using standard tuning with those gauges. Far too much tension on the neck.

As someone who has had high action, high tension for four decades, it hasn't harmed any of my basses. I have them set up by a luthier.

That said, it *could* be true of some basses. But in my experience with numerous basses from various manufacturers, I haven't found one yet that is a problem.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

I used the GHS 115-55 for quite awhile back in the 2000s, but we were tuned down to Eb.

I did eventually retire the neck from that bass, hard to say if the strings were detrimental, or if it was all the neck bending. damn you Billy Sheehan!

 

[Riff Ranger]

They don't publish numbers for tunings higher than that, because....(I'm assuming) they probably don't want you to operate it up there.

Yes, and GHS does come right out and say this:

“WARNING: These sets are optimized for BEAD tuning on a 4 string bass. Do NOT attempt to tune these sets up to standard EADG tuning.”

Their lightest BEAD set runs .125/.100/.080/.060. Their next heaviest four-string set, where they do post the tension numbers in EADG, runs .115/.095/.070/.050; that set has 221 pounds of tension total, averaging 55.25 per string. That seems like a reasonable limit to me.

(Incidentally, I have used both sets in BEAD I preferred the set intended for it, but the other set did fine.)

 

[ardgedee]

As someone who has had high action, high tension for four decades, it hasn't harmed any of my basses.

I'd be curious how easily the next owner will be able to set them up for low-tension low-action. Granted that this will not necessarily be your problem.

 

[Root 5]

As someone who has had high action, high tension for four decades, it hasn't harmed any of my basses. I have them set up by a luthier.

That said, it *could* be true of some basses. But in my experience with numerous basses from various manufacturers, I haven't found one yet that is a problem.

Maybe. The overall tension with nickel plated strings would be 208lbs approximately. The issue is the G and A strings are ~ 70lbs.

 

[ColBuckwalter]

I called DR today to ask them what kinds of custom sets they have and it turns out you can get pretty heavy with it. I asked if they could do a 60-80-105-120 set, and they said the can, as well as other options.

I would be using these most likely for standard tuning, but of course there's the option to down tune with these gauges. Does anyone have any experience using extra heavy strings?

What are the tonal differences? Any downsides?

I used to use .110 from DR. I don't know if it sounded different. I use 100 on on my hollow body, snd 105 on my Jazz.

 

[DonaldR]

Never tried but I think this would be the perfect string size for me (.055 .070 .090 .105) with a .120 B string. Any rounds available?

 

[ryco]

Strung up my EBMM Sterling with Dunlop 50-110. Usually use 45-105, and to tell truth don't really notice much difference.

 

[micguy]

why would D standard with gauges 60 80 100 120 require a conversation.
Would you have a conversation with someone using XL160BT tuned to E standard. It's the same total tension as the gauges under discussion are in DGCF. Or what about Roto88's 50 75 95 110. Downtuned to D standard they have similar total T.
Sheesh. 200lbf is only 25ish pounds more than garden variety rounds 45-105 in E standard.

When I setup a bass for me with D standard tuning (or a short scale in E standard), I use 45-60-80-105 - about 35 pounds of tension (and well balanced) per string - 45-65-85-105 is not a well balanced set tension wise (the D and A are higher tension than the G and E). When someone brings me a bass tuned in E standard, unless they have a strong string preference, it'll use 40-55-70-95 (again, about 35 pounds of tension). If it's a 5, it'll get a 130 B (which is also 35 pounds tension - most B strings are too small, which is why they are floppy (a floppy B string is a string problem). Setups at that tension are more stable than those at higher tensions -the less force you have to balance between strings and the truss rod, the more stable the setup is.

People come to me for recommendations and the benefit of my experience; that's what I recommend. If someone wants to go well outside of that, we discuss what they want to do and why. I can't stop people from doing what they want, but if you want my help, it comes with my experience and input.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

When I setup a bass for me with D standard tuning (or a short scale in E standard), I use 45-60-80-105 - about 35 pounds of tension (and well balanced) per string - 45-65-85-105 is not a well balanced set tension wise (the D and A are higher tension than the G and E). When someone brings me a bass tuned in E standard, unless they have a strong string preference, it'll use 40-55-70-95 (again, about 35 pounds of tension). If it's a 5, it'll get a 130 B (which is also 35 pounds tension - most B strings are too small, which is why they are floppy (a floppy B string is a string problem). Setups at that tension are more stable than those at higher tensions -the less force you have to balance between strings and the truss rod, the more stable the setup is.

People come to me for recommendations and the benefit of my experience; that's what I recommend. If someone wants to go well outside of that, we discuss what they want to do and why. I can't stop people from doing what they want, but if you want my help, it comes with my experience and input.

You mentioned D standard in the context of damage it might do with the gauges under discussion. What damage is 200lbf gonna do?

 

[micguy]

You mentioned D standard in the context of damage it might do with the gauges under discussion. What damage is 200lbf gonna do?

Tensions of roughtly 60, 55, 50, and 40 pounds are what we're looking at. 60 is at the limit of what the "G" (actually F) string can probably handle. 200 pounds is a lot more than 140 (where I see good stability), and you've got pretty uneven forces across the strings. A truss rod acts in the middle of things, providing a counterbalancing torque to the string tension. It does not provide ANY force to counteract twist imparted by uneven string tension - the wood in the neck is asked to do that alone. A better balanced set (or at least one that is more symmetrical in it's forces) would be kinder to your neck.

That's my recommendation, if you want a stable setup and a neck that will last a good long while. You can choose to listen, or you can do your own thing - your choice.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Tensions of roughtly 60, 55, 50, and 40 pounds are what we're looking at. 60 is at the limit of what the "G" (actually F) string can probably handle. 200 pounds is a lot more than 140 (where I see good stability), and you've got pretty uneven forces across the strings. A truss rod acts in the middle of things, providing a counterbalancing torque to the string tension. It does not provide ANY force to counteract twist imparted by uneven string tension - the wood in the neck is asked to do that alone. A better balanced set (or at least one that is more symmetrical in it's forces) would be kinder to your neck.

That's my recommendation, if you want a stable setup and a neck that will last a good long while. You can choose to listen, or you can do your own thing - your choice.

how's this for uneven forces across strings
Roto88's SH77 or RS77LE in D standard
DGCF Tuning

Gauges 50 75 95 110



D1/.110/40.30lbf
G1/.095/54.59lbf
C2/.075/56.28lbf
F2/. 050/49.62lbf

TT = 200.79lbf
Maybe Rotosound should put a warning on these sets that you might twist your neck using them.
Anyhow, you prefer light gauges . Fair enough. Each to their own.

 

[micguy]

Thus the need for more than one! Unamped in an old time circle, I use the one in my avatar. Amped for coffeehouse or like that, my Martin jumbo gets used.
View attachment 7504904

how's this for uneven forces across strings
Roto88's SH77 or RS77LE in D standard
DGCF Tuning

Gauges 50 75 95 110



D1/.110/40.30lbf
G1/.095/54.59lbf
C2/.075/56.28lbf
F2/. 050/49.62lbf

TT = 200.79lbf
Maybe Rotosound should put a warning on these sets that you might twist your neck using them.
Anyhow, you prefer light gauges . Fair enough. Each to their own.

Data like that is why I make sets out of single strings - “standard” sets are often very unbalanced tension wise. If 40 pounds is enough tension for you on one string, why not bring the other strings down to match it?