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Double Bass Appreciating the Upright Bass

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T

TunnelPig

May 6, 2011
27
0
New Jersey
#1
Hey everybody. Sorry that this is a somewhat wordy post, but I really could use the wisdom of some of you double bassists here.

In a nutshell, I've been playing the bass guitar since the age of 13. I'm almost 20. I play a four-string fretted and a six-string fretless. The bass guitar is at the center of my musical goals - while I still have a lot to learn, I can't be considered a beginner by any stretch. Not too long ago I came to a University which requires at least two years of upright bass study to be a Jazz Bass major as I am, although you can audition on bass guitar and start upright studies when accepted. This is what I did, egged on by people telling me very vaguely that the double bass would increase my musicianship and bass guitar playing. My own sense of trying to be open minded was also a factor.

As you probably have already guessed, I'm regretting my decision. I just don't find playing the double bass to be enjoyable for me in any capacity; it doesn't give me what I get from the bass guitar, and among a ton of other things I dislike about it, its ridiculous size makes it a ****ing hassle to do even the simplest things with and I don't understand why I'm being forced to play this instrument in this modern age when it has literally no place in any of my musical goals. I almost feel like it's merely a remnant from past times, here because it was once prominent, but everybody's too worried about being PC to say, "hey, this thing doesn't make sense anymore/sucks, let's ease it out of common use." You don't still see people playing the viola de gamba very often, do you?

Now, I know better than to take my own thoughts/feelings as fact, so spare me your flames. I'm aware that without the double bass, there would be no bass guitar. I'm aware that I just suggested the extinction of your primary instrument and that some of you will take offense to that, so I apologize. But I'm frustrated you guys. If my double bass professor makes one more condescending remark to me about my preference of the bass guitar, I feel like I'm going to flip out on him and trash the instrument.

So talkbass, do you have any ideas on what I could do to try to warm up to this instrument? Please be specific, I don't want to hear "it will make you better at bass guitar/ your musicianship/whatever else" for the fiftieth time, that means nothing to me. Whether I like it or not, I'm going to be playing it for another year, and would benefit from any way I could make it more tolerable.

Thanks!

tl;dr I hate playing the double bass. Help me brainstorm ways to hate it less
 
#2
1) Switch programs

2) Do what all college students do and get through that class because you have to and then forget it.

3) Go check out some jazz live and see if you feel differently. Maybe you will, maybe you won't.

4) If you're sure that you're going to make a living with a bass guitar, then I'm not going to tell you differently.

Obviously I feel completely differently than you do. I play the doublebass because it speaks to me. It is big, it is inconvenient, fragile, expensive, hard to amplify...

But, it's what I love and the people who hire me want to hear. I get one BG job for every 50 DB jobs and I like it that way. But, I'm not trying to tour with a rock band either.

It's your future, your music. Do what you want. I have no interest in trying to convince you to respect my choice of an instrument.
 
#3
What kind of doublebass-centric music are you listening to? Playing?

I enjoy playing DB and electric bass, but have a strong preference for DB because I've been a huge fan of jazz for about 45 years; if I didn't enjoy listening to expert DB players ply their craft, I might not be a fan of DB.

One of the signs of maturity is the ability to avoid taking things personally. When your instructor says something about electric bass it says more about him than it does about you: if you refuse to allow yourself to take his comments personally, you'll be doing yourself a huge favor.

When I think of jazz bass, I think of DB being played by Ray Brown, Sam Jones, Red Mitchell, Nils Pederson, and a host of others. Who are your jazz bass heroes?

Please don't take this personally, but you're still just a kid. I have lots of students your age, and most of them lack patience, the ability to forego short-term gratification in order to achieve long-term results, and the tenacity and self-discipline required to achieve their dreams; at least half of them have no idea what their long-term dreams are.

It's not easy to become an adult, but it sure is necessary.
 
#4
I wonder whether it might be worth thinking of it as a completely unrelated instrument -- it's not a substitute for your electric instrument, it doesn't fill quite the same role, and it's certainly not played the same way.

If you approach it as a musician rather than simply as a bassist, then it can provide you with another means of expression. Try focusing on arco playing to remove it even further from your previous experience. I'm sure you hate it in part because you expect to be able to play it with something approaching the fluency you presumably have on bass guitar -- forget that, it's a different instrument. Which of course begs the question as to why you should be made to play double bass rather than tuba or trombone (or anything else), for example, but thems appear to be the rules.

Other than that, suck it up. We all gotta do sh!t we don't like.

Edit: should this be in a different forum?
 
#5
Yeth, this forum is specifically meant to be a discussion on double basses..........i'll put in a request to Moderation to have it moved to the proper forum.
Meanwhile, the DB is synonymous with jazz as much as it is with classical playing while the BG is not.
Can you tell us why you chose to be a "Jazz Bass major" if you play an istrument that is historically, in most cases, not synonymous with jazz?
Not to be flaming you, but you've made some rather uniformed and radical statements about our instrument, IMNO. (in my nice opinion). :D
 
#6
Sorry... you're a jazz bassist but you don't like the sound of DB? Why are you even playing this music? DB is instrinsic to the genre. Are you just simply ignoring a core instrument that is a core part of lore?

Or is it that you hate DB because you suck at it?

Sounds like you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. Either that or need to spend far more than just 2 years playing it.

Nobody here is gonna convince you that you will like it. Either it speaks to you or it doesn't. Anything else is kinda absurd. And focusing more time on another instrument (EB) isn't gonna help your DB playing if what you seek is playing ability.
 
#7
TunnelPig said:
I just don't find playing the double bass to be enjoyable for me in any capacity; it doesn't give me what I get from the bass guitar . . .

So talkbass, do you have any ideas on what I could do to try to warm up to this instrument? I hate playing the double bass. Help me brainstorm ways to hate it less
Click to expand...
No. If it doesn't call to you drop it.

Maybe later yo uwill look deeper into chamber music, orchestra playing, Broadway, tango, klezmer, bluegrass, bossa-nova, salsa, singer-songwriter folk, rockabilly or roots-blues -- all of which work darn well on double-bass. Or you might want to delve deeper into the many varieties of jazz -- trad, swing, classic, 'modern,' post-modern, hyphenated -- almost all of which are centered around double-bass.

But ultimately life is too short to spend time playing music you don't love. Go there, TP. Pay whatever price you have to pay to get there.
 
#8
A few more questions:

When you chose to become a jazz bass major, what kind of music did you think you'd be playing?

In addition to your dissatisfaction with DB, are you dissatisfied with the standard jazz repertoire?

When you found out that you'd also have to study piano to become a music major, did you resist that as well?
 
#10
Why do so many posts look like trolling to me? Define what jazz is to you for starters. Most of what we all think of as serious jazz has been developed and played on the double bass. DB is so completely intertwined with jazz that it is hard to hear jazz played on anything else. This isn't just our view, this is the view of the entire world. Name one electric player who successfully integrated the instrument into a jazz context. Ok, there are a few but most do not prefer Bob Cranshaw with Sonny Rollins over say Doug Watkins on DB. The DB is a magical instrument. It's interesting that you don't feel that way because just about anybody who sees me take the case off my bass at a gig says "omg, that's amazing". I'm trying to remember being twenty. I remember feeling fully formed, as if all my ideas were set and I knew what was what in the world. What happened along the way is that I grew and you will grow and expand. You might even grow to love the DB. I think you need to decide whether to just take this big pill in hopes of getting something very valuable from it or move on to another program that is electric centric. I totally understand either position. The electric bass is a great instrument that does many things very well. One thing it doesn't do well is jazz. Keep that in mind.
 
#13
In my mid teens I announced that I wanted to play bass. I was 'forced' to learn DB by my dad before he would finance a BG for me. I was thinking Paul McCartney, he was thinking Paul Chambers, and so it went. I learned well enough that I was able to play 2nd chair (out of 4) in HS. After graduation I concentrated soley on BG (as I thought the same as you do - what am I ever going to use this antiquated instrument for?), but I had fallen in love with the DB, and just didn't realize that the pain in the a$$ instrument meant so much to me until I took possesion of it 25 years later. I now play in three different projects - use DB exclusively in one, and double in the other two. It can give you a completely different perspective on what/how/why you play. I missed a rehearsal with the DB exclusive band, and they had a BG player sit in. I was told later that they sounded just like every other band out there that night. They didn't care for it as much as the sound of the DB lends so much ambiance to the sound of the group. Besides that - you can't bow on a BG - another reason they have me play it. Just keep in mind that your goals will change with time, and you may find this experience invaluable someday.
 
#14
Wow, "I hate playing the double bass, help me brainstorm ways to hate it less".
That is very powerful statement in a very negative way! As an educator, or rather, ex-educator, many of us were taught to find ways to engage every student, find common ground peak to so that every student will listen and really hear what you have to say. In reality it doesn't always work out that way. "You can lead a horse to water...and all that".

As a bassist who plays both instruments and has enjoyed a certain amount of success, I'm rather appalled at such an insensitive and ignorant comment. You are in the double bass forum after all. If you're not a troll and you're really asking for help, I would suggest that you could find alternative ways of asking for possible help that were a bit less entitled and ego-centric. However, having said that, it's your personal musical journey so quit if you want to. On the other hand, if you truly want to become a better musician and bassist, I suggest you stick with it. Learning to play the double bass will teach you much more about actually generating a bass tone that does not rely on electronic pick-ups and/or amplifiers. Although playing an electric fretless can have a few challenges, it is nothing like dealing with the intonation challenges on the double bass, not to mention all the thumb position challenges. Furthermore, unlike the electric bass, one hand shape/form position will not get you very far. Oh yeah, really learning the double bass so that you are at least an average player is going to probably take much longer than 2 years.

If you really hate the double bass then I actually feel sorry for you. Here's hoping that you rethink what you want to do and how you want accomplish your musical goals.

Best,

T
 
#16
I don't think this can come from anyone else - it has to come from yourself.

I remember being in my 20s and I just wanted to play rock and funk on bass guitar - I had heard some Jazz and it didn't mean much to me and I just tended to ignore it. It was off my radar - I went to all rock gigs and listened to rock albums - that was what I wanted to play. There were no music education courses open to me, no internet and the only way to learn was to go to gigs and try to work out what other bass players I liked were doing.

Roll on 20 years and I was bored with playing rock/pop and I started to listen to Jazz as it was more interesting. At first I tried to use bass guitar for this - but was generally dissatisfied - the more I listened to Jazz and got into it - the more it became apparent that all the best Jazz was built around great Double Bass playing - that was the pulse, the swing, the groove - the whatever.

But nobody could tell me how to like Jazz - it was only my own interest that drove me towards that and the Double Bass. I think it has to come from within yourself or you will never be happy with it.
 
#17
It's OK. Treat it like constipation -- this too shall pass. Give it a couple of decades. Then, later on, you'll wake up on your 40th birthday and be absolutely gripped with DB GAS.
 
#18
Jeez, where to start? If you don't like it, you don't like it. You should be able to deal with having to do things in the short term that you don't like so that, in the long term, you get to do things that you do like. And deal with them without whining. There are several thousand people in the tri state area that manage to play this instrument without finding it "f@#king impossible" and have done so for many, many years. Grow a pair, deal with it for another year and then you never, never have to touch one again.
It will just be one less on the train.
You also offered several opinions about the instrument I love, you'll forgive me if I don't address those. I consider them uninformed and, as I don't really care what you think, answering them would be a waste of my time.
 
#19
I'm inclined to think you are not able to get anything out of the instrument that you like and that may be a big part of your aversion. It seems almost impossible for someone to love the sound of the electric bass, that warm, low, visceral thump and yet find the double bass, which is a warmer, heavier, visceral thump so unappealing. It takes a couple years to even really start getting a good acoustic sound out of the instrument. But, then again, this may be one of the strangest questions ever posted on the double bass side of TB. Convince you to like the double bass? At the core it screams that you do not take responsibility for your self and look to others to do the heavy lifting. The double bass is no place for someone who doesn't want to be honest with themselves and buckle down for a long haul of work, self-critique and self (ego) sacrifice. We've all said this before, why don't you post some examples of your playing so we can hear where you are coming from musically? A sound clip is worth a thousand posts.
 
#20
If you have listened to music featuring double bass and haven't gotten inspired, then I guess you won't be a double bassist. No problem. But if you want to finish your school program, you'll have to grin and bare it. Try listening to Charlie Haden and Jimmy Garrison, two players that made it impossible for me to not play the double bass (and I came from porkchop).
 
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