Double Bass Arco with K&K bass max

[Pings Bass]

Hey gang, I like the sound of the K&K bass max for pizzicato, but the arco sound is harsh. Not at all warm. I don't bow a lot, but I can't imagine bowing on a gig at all with this tone.

Is this known to be the case with this particular pickup, or is it my crappy bowing technique? Or maybe the installation of the pickup?

 

[unbrokenchain]

Not just you. If it's a loud environment or the arco is way back in the mix I just engage a cheap MXR eq pedal to squash the highs which gets rid of most of that ripping paper sound. If the bass is prominent though, I run both pickup and mic and mute the pickup for arco.

 

[Pings Bass]

Not just you. If it's a loud environment or the arco is way back in the mix I just engage a cheap MXR eq pedal to squash the highs which gets rid of most of that ripping paper sound. If the bass is prominent though, I run both pickup and mic and mute the pickup for arco.

ripping paper sound yeah man, that's it!

The last thing I need is equipment making me sound even worse than I actually am.

Anyway, thanks for that, glad it's not just me, but not thrilled about adding more electronics/complexity to the signal chain.

 

[Don Hergert]

Arco gets my bass's strings singing like nothing else. The acoustic volume is at least 2x that of pizz. That's why it's so valuable to play arco even if just for practice because you can learn so easily from your intonation mistakes...

I have different pickups (Vic's Model C), but I have observed the same thing with arco when amped that has been discussed here. I use a K&K Dual Channel Pro ST pre-amp mounted conveniently on the back of my bow quiver, and when I pull out the bow, I adjust the bridge wing pickup volume to about 50% of what it was. When I put the bow back in the quiver, I adjust the volume back. That simple change makes arco palatable and actually very nice sounding when amped.

I do suspect though, that the best tone for arco will always come from standard mics sitting at normal distance from the instrument, where technique noise drops off somewhat and tone is strong and consistent... Whether that's practical or not is a good question.

 

[Martin Beer]

It seems to be the nature of most bridge wing pickups with arco playing. And if you EQ it out on the amp, you lose too much detail from the pizz sound. Having some kind of EQ on a footswitch helps to some extent - the footswitchable LPF section on my Schalltechnik Vong pedal does an acceptable job for me.

 

[unbrokenchain]

It seems to be the nature of most bridge wing pickups with arco playing. And if you EQ it out on the amp, you lose too much detail from the pizz sound. Having some kind of EQ on a footswitch helps to some extent - the footswitchable LPF section on my Schalltechnik Vong pedal does an acceptable job for me.

That's what the EQ pedal does for me (I also cut the gain on it a little so that I can put more weight into the strings).

Make sure if you use an EQ pedal that it goes BEFORE the signal to FOH though. Try coming in on a gentle arco line behind a delicate singer-songwriter when the sound guy has all the EQ at noon, eek. Been there. If you do a lot of arco, a mic is a huge help. I use a cheapo condenser that was meant for drum overheads, and while I'd love to have a premium bass mic, really any mic that doesn't feedback like crazy is better than any pickup for arco (my opinion).

 

[Pings Bass]

A mic sounds best, all around, undoubtedly.

But... I used to do live sound, and hated having to mic double bass. The huge reflecting surface of the top invites feedback if you push any signal through floor monitors. If you EQ out all the feedback, you're left with a dead tone. And if you mic close enough to minimize bleed-through from other sound sources (e.g. drums), you get proximity effect (boominess). Anyway... inlining an EQ pedal sounds like it may be the simplest thing that can possibly work.

Thanks gang!

Edit: didn't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with you using a mic... just that I don't want to fuss with it!

 

[Ric Vice]

Weird thing is that the piezo pickups that tend to sound great with pizzicato aren't the ones that sound great with arco. The example being the Full Circle vs the Realist. The Full Circle sounds better plucked and the Realist sounds better bowed. I've
had extremely good luck with the Ehrlund EAP into a Grace Designs Felix. I can switch back and forth effortlessly between arco and pizzicato. I do realize that that's not the case for others. Microphones FOH are fantastic, Microphones through amps
are problematlc. The Ehrlund seems to be the best compromize between the two, for me. Just my take of course.

 

[unbrokenchain]

A mic sounds best, all around, undoubtedly.

But... I used to do live sound, and hated having to mic double bass. The huge reflecting surface of the top invites feedback if you push any signal through floor monitors. If you EQ out all the feedback, you're left with a dead tone. And if you mic close enough to minimize bleed-through from other sound sources (e.g. drums), you get proximity effect (boominess). Anyway... inlining an EQ pedal sounds like it may be the simplest thing that can possibly work.

Thanks gang!

Edit: didn't mean to imply that there's anything wrong with you using a mic... just that I don't want to fuss with it!

This little bugger has worked wonders for me! Not perfect, but on my Kay it's all I ever wanted really. I don't run it through the amp, just foh and no monitors (that's what the pickup/amp is for). Someday I'll have funds laying around to try out some actual nice mics.

 

[Pings Bass]

View attachment 3305786

This little bugger has worked wonders for me! Not perfect, but on my Kay it's all I ever wanted really. I don't run it through the amp, just foh and no monitors (that's what the pickup/amp is for). Someday I'll have funds laying around to try out some actual nice mics.

Oh interesting! I've actually got some pencil condenser mics I could try. What's keeping the mic clip attached to the strings? Looks like hockey tape!

 

[unbrokenchain]

Oh interesting! I've actually got some pencil condenser mics I could try. What's keeping the mic clip attached to the strings? Looks like hockey tape!

It's a piece of folded leather with a hole, I thread the attachment for a drum overhead into the mic clip through the leather as a kind of bolt. It's just a CAD drum kit mic that I had lying around (I also run sound sometimes) and decided to try along with some random other things I had. It worked the best and it's been surprisingly effective. Just did a listening room/theater gig the other day and didn't end up using the pickup at all. Again, I'm sure better mics would be a noticeable difference, but the setup provides a good amount of ability to move the mic north/south and close to/further from the top.