Are clubs using stereo in the mains?

[flameworker]

Would anyone know if larger clubs/venues are using stereo pa's these days? World Cafe, Fox Theater, Keswick sized places.

I'm working up a solo/2 man show and was thinking of incorporating stereo. Probably will be doing a lot if openers (phff, back to the bottom of the poster again. ...in ego shattering small type..)

When I was playing larger venues in the late 90's, early 2000's mostly the mix was mono. About 4 to 1 mono vs stero Even the Fox theater was mono(not sure if they had a permanent pa, or contracted).

Technology leaps forward, my current sound guy runs stereo even at tiny bars. Trying to figure out what to expect if we take this show out for a tour and don't bring our own soundperson (cheaper to use local, but had many terrible "sound reinforcement professionals" some didn't even want to Mic the drums or put the bass in the mix. I traveled with the smallest lightest rig I could find, a trace Elliott 210 and an swr Baby Blue 160 watt amp. Not enough for most rooms without support, not bashing, just sayin)

 

[Vince Klortho]

Few places do that I have found so I would not worry about it. Very few people will notice a difference between the channels in a bar so it seems rather pointless to me.

 

[flameworker]

That's pretty much what I figured, there are a lot of interesting stereo effects I mashed opon using ableton and Guitar rig wearing headphones. No point in using them if the mix will be mono, might end up sounding like mud. Low frequency modulation sounds cool in stereo, and like a lot of noise in mono (to my ears). I will b

I will be trying to find more music listening type venues, not wanting to just sell beer anymore. There are several just in my local area popping up, like the Kennett Flash, and the Queen theater in Wilmington. There is still drinking, but the focus is more on the music. I'm hoping to find more places like that across the us. Aiming for late summer/fall.

 

[Bufalo]

My comments can probably be more eloquently explained by better-trained sound folks, but -

In a live-performance venue, even sound coverage is one of the most important aspects of sound reinforcement system design. Meaning that ideally people in every seat will hear every bit of the performance at the same volume and at the same time. A stereo system, mixed with stereo-panned elements and effects, will not provide even sound pressure levels across the whole venue. It can also add oddly-timed delays in perception because of the increased distances that would exist between a stereo pair of speakers relative to the location of the audience members.

For a recording that will be played back in a home/earphone/car environment, mixing in stereo and adding stereo effects at the most basic level gives the recording a sense of spaciousness to recreate that which would be naturally occurring in a live setting. At the most extreme it gives the recordist an extra level of creativity by which to create new and unusual sounds that don't otherwise exist in a live environment.

 

[ggunn]

[Stereo sound] can also add oddly-timed delays in perception because of the increased distances that would exist between a stereo pair of speakers relative to the location of the audience members.

That could be said for a mono mix as well. Some rooms work for stereo and others not so much. Within the set that do, there are varying degrees of stereo that will and won't work.

 

[WayneP]

A stereo mix is only valid for the lucky people in the “sweet spot,” dead-center between the speakers. Anyone else gets a short-changed mix. I’ve been in "stereo" clubs where I couldn’t hear the lead guitar solo because it was panned to the other side of the room from where I was standing.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Fretless Club #943
Big Cabs Club #23
Pedulla Club #45

 

[Guitalia]

Ralf Hutter of Kraftwerk once said in an interview that they always use a mono mix live, "because it is more democratic."

 

[ggunn]

A stereo mix is only valid for the lucky people in the “sweet spot,” dead-center between the speakers. Anyone else gets a short-changed mix. I’ve been in "stereo" clubs where I couldn’t hear the lead guitar solo because it was panned to the other side of the room from where I was standing.

A common but not totally accurate comment. There is stereo and then there is stereo; if it's mixed as you say with instruments or vocals panned completely to one side or the other, then yes, it can be problematic (I wouldn't mix that way in any venue, BTW). But if, for example, an instrument is through a stereo chorus effect, that can work in just about any room; those listeners in the center of the sound field get the stereo effect while those on the sides and outside the area between the FOH cabs get a mono chorus, the same as if the mix were mono. How much stereocity stereoness stereoism (whatever) is appropriate for a venue is very dependent on the room, of course, but stereo in live music is not an either-or deal.

 

[seamonkey]

Invalid Link Removed

Add a Sub and it will cover small/medium venues

I don't know if big one's will ever be made, but keyboardist and one man shows are loving them

 

[Scott Waldy]

Don't get the fact that most audio amplifiers have two channels get mixed up with the word "Stereo". If you run a bass, vocalist, drum kit, etc... straight up, then I'm inclined to say no. It is not "Stereo". It's mono. However, If you actually run 2 channels into the board from an effect, keys etc... and pan them left and right, then yes. However, most venues, in my experience (myself included) do not run "Stereo". The reason is like mentioned before, most of the audience would NOT be "In the Sweet Spot" as it were. Thus the mix would not be very enjoyable for most of the patrons. There for most bands are ran straight up and therefore not stereo, per se'.

Clear as mud?

 

[ggunn]

Don't get the fact that most audio amplifiers have two channels get mixed up with the word "Stereo". If you run a bass, vocalist, drum kit, etc... straight up, then I'm inclined to say no. It is not "Stereo". It's mono. However, If you actually run 2 channels into the board from an effect, keys etc... and pan them left and right, then yes. However, most venues, in my experience (myself included) do not run "Stereo". The reason is like mentioned before, most of the audience would NOT be "In the Sweet Spot" as it were. Thus the mix would not be very enjoyable for most of the patrons. There for most bands are ran straight up and therefore not stereo, per se'.

Clear as mud?

As I have said, there is stereo and then there is stereo. I always run stereo, but the mix I build is made to fit the room. Some venues are good enough listening spaces that one can build in a lot of stereo imaging without "cheating" anyone in the audience, others not so much. You can just about always run stereo chorus effects, since anyone who can only hear one channel hears a mono chorus, the same as they would if they were on axis and you were running everything centered.

In many larger venues there are small FOH stacks near the large arrays that put out the audio from the opposite side of the stage so that if you are very close to one main stack or the other you can still hear the other side. There are many ways to skin a cat, and an engineer worth his salt can usually dial in the right amount of stereo treatment to his mix to maximize the enjoyment of the whole audience. If he can't, then by all means he should stick to mono.

I'll just add this: sound in any venue, no matter to what degree it is stereo, is different in different places around the room. One mark of an experienced soundperson is that he or she will periodically "walk the room" to hear how things sound throughout the hall. Blanket comments like "nobody runs stereo" and "stereo never works" are not accurate.