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Double Bass Are EUBs generally accepted in straight-forward jazz?

Are EUBs generally accepted in straight-forward jazz?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 30.5%

  • No

    Votes: 41 69.5%
  • Total voters
    59
Matthew_84

Matthew_84

Nov 7, 2010
6,497
5,101
Greater Toronto Area, Canada
#1
Hey all,

I've been a BG player for about 4 years now, but in the last couple of months, my appreciation of jazz has went from a moderate level to loving it and wanting to devote most of my time playing it.

Now, there are a couple limitations that prevent me from playing an acoustic DB (size, cost, and most importantly volume). I've seen and heard some clips of some decent EUBs in the $2k range that do sound quite similar to a DB - well, I know if I listened to a DB played acoustically and then a EUB played through an amp that I would hear a difference, but a good EUB sounds closer to a DB than a BG (if EQ'd and played properly). The most noticeable difference is the longer sustain on an EUB, which could be great for bowing but not so much for pizzicato. So I think if I could shorten the sustain that they would sound fairly similar.

I've read a lot about how a BG isn't generally accepted in straight-forward jazz, but that in other forms it may be and in some cases prefered (ie. Fusion), and that in most musical programs you can get in with a EUB but you'll usually be switched to a DB. I'm just a casual player, not about to sign up for any music courses or try out for any serious bands or anything. I just want to buy an EUB to jam to jazz with, practice it (with DB technique and lessons from a DB instructor) with the ambition to play in some smallish jazz gigs in the future. Truthfully I want to be taken seriously and not frowned upon for showing up without a DB.

So after that long-winded explanation, I'll go back to my initial question, are EUBs generally accepted in straight-forward jazz?

Thanks,

Matt
 
#2
Depends on the context.
Many pros will bring an EUB on tour but otherwise will play their acoustic.
There are several players known for their use of the EUB (Eberhard Weber, David Friesen, Bunny Brunel to name a few) but they don't play much straight-ahead on the EUB either. (Friesen mostly uses the acoustic when playing straight-ahead)
 
#3
Thanks for your post Francois. I'm looking forward to hearing some of their work. Sorry to ask this, as it maybe a lengthy answer, but can you please list some work of theirs which was done on an EUB and some that was done on a DB so I can compare?

Nothing too specific, maybe just a couple of albums? I would greatly appreciate it.

Matt
 
#5
To answer your question, I don't believe an EUB would be taken seriously in straight-forward Jazz. I own an Upton plywood bass that is incredible for jazz and I payed less than 2k for it.
With that said, I'm a (bordering on crazy) fan of David Friesen and Glenn Moore, both of whom play EUB's very often. I think for them it's a choice of sound, and as artists that's we all are striving for; to get the music of our minds, into the air so others can hear it.
Hear are some samples;
My favorite bass player in the world, Glenn Moore playing his DB
Redial : Oregon Live - YouTube
Glen playing an EUB
Oregon - Witchi-Tai-To (live) - YouTube
David Friesen playing his EUB
David Friesen - YouTube

Enjoy your search.
Peace.
ASG
 
#6
I think you'd regret getting an EUB if you like straight-ahead. I did the EUB before DB thing, and I wasted a bunch of time learning idiosyncratic techniques even though I did study with DB teachers. Only get a EUB if you want the EUB sound.

For under 2k, you can get a nice sounding, well set up plywood bass with a bag and student bow. Because you already have the VT bass preamp, just get a simple feedback resistant pickup like the bass max (100 bucks) and the most basic fdeck preamp (55 bucks.) You will be able to get plenty loud.
 
#7
Sorry, I should actually clarify that my concerns about volume are not that it won't be loud enough, rather that it will be too loud.

In the next couple of months my fiance and I will be moving into a likely one bedroom apartment. Playing a DB will certainly rumble the floors and walls a bit, and annoy my future neighbours as well as possibly my fiance. And I should mention that I tend to practise in the early morning or at night.

I'm really inclined to get an EUB because I'm under the belief that like a BG, it will make some noise unplugged, but I can plug in some headphones into my amp for a more silent treatment. I am likely a year or two away before I even consider doing any gigs.

And thanks for posting those links. I'll check them out later when I'm no longer at work.
 
#8
I understand this concern, and have had some (limited) complaints from a roommate at one point (I was practicing arco and slapping, unmuted, in the middle of the night), but never ever neighbors even though I've always been in small apartment buildings. I've never heard anyone complain about rumbling floors. Practice mutes are cheap and useful as well.

These things come up a lot. "Can't fit it in my car." "Too expensive for a student bass." "Hard to amplify." "Too loud to practice in my apartment." These all have shades of truth, although I personally have found them to be overblown IME. If you can't a way to make it work, your only other option is a different instrument like the EUB, and after spending years with both, I really do think EUBs (at least the stick ones) are different animals.

A great compromise for you might actually be a used Eminence, which show up used and ready to go under 2k sometimes. These at have soundposts, bass bars, real fingerboards and transition areas, a well thought out balance point, and do have some acoustic sound. Good luck, this is a great journey!
 
#9
Perhaps your main question is not the essential one to ask or answer?

If you want to play jazz on the BG then do it. A lot of people do it and it can sound just fine.
If you want to learn to play jazz DB, then buy one and do it. 2K is plenty money for a decent well set up plywood bass with p/u. Search the used market as well as new.

If you want to play EUB, then do it. EUB is rare in straight ahead jazz, but perhaps the current standard choice in caribbean latin music styles. People who play that usually often hold the EUB upright so the fingerboard is almost vertical to the ground and not leaning like a jazz player would hold a DB.

One of the main differences of playing feel, which I did not notice until returning to EUB for a show, after playing DB for a while, is that most EUBs have necks that are almost flat to the body. It can be odd to play an EUB near the nut using a DB standing posture and trying to play jazz lines. Hence people use the vertical stance, which works better for latin ostinato lines. An angled endpin might help in this.

Reading your OP ...

"my appreciation of jazz has went from a moderate level to loving it and wanting to devote most of my time playing it."

I'd say, learn and do as much as you can learn and do on the BG, and then if you still desire it, buy an acoustic DB when your ready. Might as well get one with a carved top. Then after a good time playing, if you still want to buy an EUB for certain uses, go ahead and do it.
 
#10
JayB said:
These things come up a lot. "Can't fit it in my car." "Too expensive for a student bass." "Hard to amplify." "Too loud to practice in my apartment." These all have shades of truth, although I personally have found them to be overblown IME. If you can't a way to make it work, your only other option is a different instrument like the EUB, and after spending years with both, I really do think EUBs (at least the stick ones) are different animals.

A great compromise for you might actually be a used Eminence, which show up used and ready to go under 2k sometimes. These at have soundposts, bass bars, real fingerboards and transition areas, a well thought out balance point, and do have some acoustic sound. Good luck, this is a great journey!
Click to expand...

+1 on an Eminence. It is all you say it is and because of these things it gets accepted in situations where a solidbody EUB would not be. I'd rather be playing a real bass but (here's an original one for yer list) I live on a sailboat and a real bass doesn't fit.
 
#13
longfinger said:
Perhaps your main question is not the essential one to ask or answer?

If you want to play jazz on the BG then do it.

If you want to learn to play jazz DB, then buy one and do it.

If you want to play EUB, then do it.
Click to expand...

Thank you! :cool:

The one thing about the DB world (yes, BG interloper here) that really gets me to chewing rocks is the stubborn insistence upon hewing to a rigid, arbitrary orthodoxy about "what is jazz" and "what isn't jazz"...as if there is some unseen Council of Jazz High Priests Whose Judgments Must Not Be Questioned.

Bull pucky! It's all in your minds! The only limits are the ones you have chosen to impose upon yourselves. Imposing this stuff on the newbies coming into your world, who either don't know any better or are more interested in fitting in and being accepted, is the way it gets perpetuated - and then they impose it on others.

Choose to throw off the chains of constrictive consensus reality, and suddenly all things become possible. Who has the vision and courage to challenge the stuffy status quo? :hmm:

jeff arddun said:
I'd rather be playing a real bass..
Click to expand...

A "real" bass? :rolleyes:

MM
 
#14
Truthfully I do understand why a bass guitar isn't really accepted at a jazz gig where its the only electric instrument. The bass guitar (depending on how it's EQ'd and it's strings) can have some very strong harmonics and sustain that would interfere with what the other instruments are doing.

I personally love the low end thump of an upright. It's a foundation of melodic rhythm for the other instruments to stand on. And I do believe that that's one of the elements that's attracting me to this style of jazz.

I am still curious about an EUB however, and am looking forward to listening to many different songs when I get home.
 
#15
There's nothing like an acoustic. I don't know how much you've played around on a doublebass, but once you figure out what that sound is about, you'll wonder what you were ever thinking. Putting your hands all over that thing, it's like you sculpt the sound out of the bass. I love playing my fretless electric, but it's a whole different thing. The large resonating thing is very inspiring. Screw the neighbors!
 
#16
Anonymatt said:
There's nothing like an acoustic. I don't know how much you've played around on a doublebass, but once you figure out what that sound is about, you'll wonder what you were ever thinking. Putting your hands all over that thing, it's like you sculpt the sound out of the bass. I love playing my fretless electric, but it's a whole different thing. The large resonating thing is very inspiring. Screw the neighbors!
Click to expand...

Well, for the time being, will this do?

Der virtuelle Kontrabassist

(taken from this thread: http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f1/my-self-built-upright-vitual-version-770767/)
 
#19
Hey guys, thanks for posting those clips... Yeah, EUBs and DB's sound different than I had thought last night. When you just hear a EUB you think, "Hey it sounds like an upright", but when you compare the two it really doesn't.

The EUB has that rubber band sound that the strings from a DB give, but it doesn't quite have that warm, robust, woody tone that a DB has, instead its tone sounds kind of electric. From what I just kind of gathered an EUB sounds like the middle of the road between a DB and a fretless bass guitar. Although it does sound great, it's not really what I'm after right now.

I think I may just turn a POS jazz copy into a fretless and put a foam mute on it for the time being and practice my intonation and do ear training and things like that until I can afford the upright. Thanks again everyone.
 

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