Double Bass Are EUBs generally accepted in straight-forward jazz?

[Anonymatt]

I think I may just turn a POS jazz copy into a fretless and put a foam mute on it for the time being and practice my intonation and do ear training and things like that until I can afford the upright. Thanks again everyone.

Good luck man. I had about two serious years with my fretless before I began doublebass (after years of guitars-n-things), and I'm certain it accelerated things.

Funny thing, for most electric gigs, having a fretless is kind of like having an EUB, in terms of general acceptance by anyone that'd notice. I mean, my commitment to working on a fretless instrument has caused major rifts in friendships, but now everybody likes me for my bigger ears.

But I'm telling you, once you've had your DB for 6 months, you're going to wonder what it'd be like if you'd had it for a year. "When you realize you want to spend the rest of your life with somebody, you want the rest of your life to start as soon as possible!" Sue me, I'm toasted.

 

[Francois Blais]

I think I may just turn a POS jazz copy into a fretless [snip]

By removing the frets?

 

[steeve85]

Well, I voted "No" 'cos you don't see them amongst "serious" jazz players.

However, in the bands that I see locally to me and certainly those in which I play, pretty much no-one plays double bass. The twin griefs of transport and amplification mean that bass guitar is almost universal. In the big band in which I play, the bassist turned up one night with an EUB and everyone agreed that it was a step up both in sound and look. However, she's now gone and so it's back to BG.

Double Bass players? Pro level only, really, and even then mostly up in London where there's a "proper" jazz scene.

 

[Papobass]

Word has it that Eddie Gomez has used Bill Merchant's Vertical EUB

 

[Glenn Harris]

The answer I'd prefer seeing to the poll question is, "It depends."

I'll hazard the guess that, for 80 percent or more of those (non-musicians) who say they prefer the DB over the EUB, it's a visual issue, rather than a question of sound or tone.

On the other hand, I use an EUB for jazz jobs, and most people react quite positively to the sounds I get from the two instruments that I use.

 

[SteveC]

Depends on your location and gig. Here in the boonies, you don't need one. In New York, probably yes. I used to use an EUB but am now using a Rob Allen Mouse. Sounds very much like an amplified upright, but way easier in every way.

I've also played a ton of gigs with a fretted electric. Around here, people aren't that particular - thank goodness - as long as you play good style and correct notes with an appropriate sound.

I am debating going back to a fretted 4 (maybe 5 for contemporary jazz and church) for all my gigs. I'm just lazy and don't want to switch instruments all the time.

 

[fingerbun]

Thank you!

The one thing about the DB world (yes, BG interloper here) that really gets me to chewing rocks is the stubborn insistence upon hewing to a rigid, arbitrary orthodoxy about "what is jazz" and "what isn't jazz"...as if there is some unseen Council of Jazz High Priests Whose Judgments Must Not Be Questioned.

Bull pucky! It's all in your minds! The only limits are the ones you have chosen to impose upon yourselves. Imposing this stuff on the newbies coming into your world, who either don't know any better or are more interested in fitting in and being accepted, is the way it gets perpetuated - and then they impose it on others.

Choose to throw off the chains of constrictive consensus reality, and suddenly all things become possible. Who has the vision and courage to challenge the stuffy status quo?



A "real" bass?

MM

Kinda-sorta.

You turn up with a Martin D28 to play lead guitar in a metal band, you aren't gonna get the gig. Fine instrument but not the right sound.

Generally EUBs that I have heard / played sound like a fretless electric. Nice sound, but not the same as an upright.

If you are a bass guitarist, and that is the sound you want, fretless electric is an easier learning curve.

Never played an eminence, but I'm told it sounds like an upright. Not sure if it feels the same though....smaller neck from what I've read. The Czech-EZ by David Guage is another you could look at that is more upright-like in sound....basically it's an upright with the bottom removed.

 

[steeve85]

Mystic Michael,

What fingerbun said.

I play guitar with a Big Band every so often, as mentioned above. The previous regular bassist has left the country for a while, and the guy who has joined has been working up his DB to the level where he was ready to play his first gig with it on Friday night.

And it definitely sounded better, "righter". Now I play BG, and have played DB, and as mentioned elsewhere asm contemplating an EUB. So I am fully open to all the sounds. But for this music, the DB was just exactly right. All of the muso's in the band thought it sounded noticeably better. What's more, chucking around some guitar chords over the Db at the end of the last week's rehearsal really made me want to get out there and play, they just sounded so good together. And the visual side of things didn't hurt, like playing an archtop guitar rather than my Strat.
So all in all..I still love playing BG, Jaco is still king....but that big ol' doghouse bass is still the man for the jazz gig.

 

[steeve85]

Spotted playing bass for The Impossible Gentlemen at the Queen Elizabeth Hall as part of the London Jazz Festival on Sunday was Steve Rodby of Pat Metheny's Quartet. The IG's usual bassist, Steve Swallow, was headlining with his own Quintet and Mr. Rodby was depping for Swallow with a lot of great playing on an Eminence EUB, which sounded really good.

 

[SteveC]

Context, location, seriousness of ensemble, etc. all play in to the question. Around here, I have use fretted and fretless 4-6 strings, EUB's and currently a Rob Allen Mouse. While we love jazz and are "serious" about it, no one I play with cares what I bring as long as I play good notes and good feel. I have done plenty of "straight forward" jazz gigs with a fretted 4. Thankfully, no one here is that much of a snob.

Now, if you are in New York, Chicago, etc., you probably need an upright. I'm glad I'm where I am.

 

[Stewthebassman]

I have played electric bass for thirty years or so, and DB for ten. I played electric in Big Bands for about 8 years before getting the DB.

I have played the DB almost exclusively fr the last 8 years, in jazz duos or trios. But I tell you it's a big beast to haul around, and most always you need an amp too. And while the percussive nature of the instrument comes out in a smaller room, in a bigger room I swear an EUB would sound the same. It's also easier to carry around.

I think however, that it'll be hard to get the feeling for that sound you love so much without getting a real DB. If you're alone practicing in your apartment for a year or two you'll love the DB sound.

GET LESSONS.

It's a hard instrument to play, you really need lessons to have your hands and fingers in the right places.

I think (as do we all here) that it's great you're considering this journey!

 

[timobee4]

Anything is excepted I reckon except its pretty much a personal taste, heaps of players use BG for jazz although DB sounds the best due to its organic wonderful properties and the look as well!! EUB is beyond my understanding as I have tried several and they all without any exception merely firewood or just oversized upright BG's for the BG players to give themselves the illusion that they actually play upright. I have walked out of a jazz gig because the bass player played EUB. It didnt sound and looked right next to trumpet, sax, and piano! I even said to the pianist mate of mine not to bother just to bring a Casio next time

are EUBs generally accepted in straight-forward jazz
Matt

 

[OmNomNom]

I can't speak much on a global scale but I am yet to see one at any of the New York clubs I've been too. I am in Wilmington, DE and I have seen both acoustic and electric upright players. Both seem to be generally accepted, as well as BG. Around here it seems to be the player that matters most. Granted, I am not rubbing elbows with most of the more established cats in the area, so perhaps there is an underlying bias I am not aware of.

 

[tkozal]

When I first started playing in the late 70's, there was more acceptance in general of BG in Jazz, and other instruments too. But the jazz world has changed and gotten conservative, partly due to the hiving off of the whole smooth jazz world. Here in NYC, its like the freakin law. But not so much out on the east end of LI at the vineyard scene.

I blame Wynton

 

[Oscar Stern]

EUBs are starting to become accepted into Jazz because they have a neat sound that falls in between a Fretless Electric Bass & an Acoustic Upright Bass. The quality of them has improved over the years.

 

[TroyK]

My opinion, for what it's worth:

The player is accepted or isn't, not the instrument. But if you're a beginner (it doesn't matter how long you've been playing BG and styles other than jazz), that doesn't help you.

A great player, who people liked listening to and hanging with, will find their place on the scene.

Straight ahead jazz will always be biased towards acoustic double bass. There is plenty of not-straight-ahead jazz where it matters less, if it all, but you said "straight ahead". Still a great player could overcome that bias.

EUBs, as Ed indicated, are not cheaper than serviceable, working DBs.

There are players who prefer EUBs and they have a few practical advantages, if you want to play 60s era Blue Note/Prestige/Vervesque jazz on your local scene, you won't help yourself by going EUB because the idea of it is less daunting from a BG perspective.

If it's really the instrument that is calling you, then commit to it with no apologies and start down the road of gaining that acceptance, based on who you are. You're going to have to do that either way.

Honestly, for me, if I physically couldn't manage DB, I would be the best P-Bass player I could be. It would probably cost me some jazz work, but I could still find my place on the scene with it. There are some great local-to-me players proving that. Vertically orienting it, doesn't make that much difference to my ears. It's worth it with the acoustic properties of DB.