Are expensive cars worth it?

[Stewie26]

I absolutely think it's going away. There's been a stigma about car salesman for a long time, and I've personally experienced the whole stereotypical pushy salesman type several times while looking for a new car, so the stigma wasn't just magically fabricated at some point. There are just so many old school sales tactics that just don't work any more because of the amount of information the consumer has at their fingertips. I've even personally shot down a "You won't find this cheaper anywhere else!" by pulling up a dealer 20 minutes away from the one I was at.

I read an article the other day about dealerships struggling to keep younger salesman employed. Often times, it's a stepping stone for a less commission based career. I don't think sales in general is going anywhere, but I do believe the whole haggling on new large consumer purchases is. People in my generation and younger want goods to priced at a reasonable cost where the manufacturer gets a profit and we get the item we want. I'm not personally interested in having to have the gift of gab to get a fair deal on something.

That above is pretty much the Tesla Sales Model. You order the car the way you want it factory direct on the net. They give the price. No salesman, no haggle, no commissions, and all customers pay the same. After the car is built, you pick the car up from a Tesla delivery center where they treat you like a VIP. And all of the people I did encounter at Tesla were in their twenties or early thirties and acted and looked very professional. All in all, it was a very pleasant purchasing experience. I am thinking other car manufactures may end having to follow this sales model in the future. The only problem is that the manufactures would have to ditch their current car dealerships which would be difficult to do as the existing dealership owners would not be too happy about.

 

[fdeck]

I don't think sales in general is going anywhere, but I do believe the whole haggling on new large consumer purchases is.

Sales is just moving into the digital realm. I read a comment that if you look closely, you will find that "silicon valley" is basically a hub of advertising and media. But in-person sales may be dying.

People in my generation and younger want goods to priced at a reasonable cost where the manufacturer gets a profit and we get the item we want.

Actually, I don't even care if they make a profit. Some of the car makers have had periods of loss that went on for years. And from what I've read, they tend to lose money or break even on the kinds of cars that I buy, low end models with zero options.

 

[Mike N]

In my view, most people don't need AWD either. It's my understanding that proper snow tires make a bigger difference than AWD. We now have a set of snow tires for each car.

Tires are the only point of contact from your car to the road. You can have the best brakes, steering, AWD and whatnot, but if you have crappy tires the game is over.

I've been running snow tires on all my cars since 1983. Rear wheel drive, wrong wheel drive and AWD..... all get snows at every corner.

My plow truck gets tall and narrow mud tires.

 

[hbarcat]

If all you want is basic transportation that's safe and reliable, then expensive cars are not worth it. For $20,000 you can go into any major dealership and purchase a new car that will not only safe and reliable, but will be reasonably comfortable, perform well, have a nice stereo and navigation and other modern useful features, and also last well over 200,000 miles, if you take care of it.

Modern automotive technology is so far advanced from what it was a generation ago that it's not even comparable. Not only does the technology keep moving ahead, but the quality does too. The days are long gone when a cheap car was a disposable car that was miserable to drive even when it was new.

But lots of people want more than basic transportation. More performance, luxury or utility are essential for some drivers and getting that comes at a price.

If you want a car that is your daily driver but also is capable of dominating the amateur autocross course on weekends, then $40,000 or more is the price of admission. The same goes for excess luxury or utility. If thats what you want, then lots of money is the only way to get it. .

 

[S-Bigbottom]

How do you maintain a car? Do you fix EVERY item that goes bad, as soon as it goes bad? Parts will break, and the only way you get a car to 200K or 300K miles is to never let a problem go unfixed. You get after every problem, every broken part, and you fix it instead of letting it go on.

Why? Because no part costs what a replacement car costs. Get it done. Over time, you may replace many of the systems in the car, but you haven't been making car payments, so it should be no problem to do the maintenance and repair. Transmission go? No sweat, rebuild or replace. Engine burn oil? Do a rebuild. Front end get loose? Replace parts as needed, align, go drive it.

Yup.
That 170,000+ Volvo and close to that Toyota van I mentioned I got them used 10+ years ago and this is how they sill go. Though they both have a reputation for long life also.

Some years we only spend $100 on maintenance items like fluids and maybe a small part and other years we spend around $500-800 for timing belt, tires or some other large repair. That is still much cheaper than buying another car/car payments.
Being that they were both used an bought paid in full the maintenance/repair cost is the only money going into them, and it is WAYYY less that three months of payments on a new car or lease.

So not including gas I have never spent over a thousand dollars over a year on our cars for repair or maintenance. I keep track of this.

This summer I replaced All of the Fluids in the Volvo and Toyota for under $100 each. Oil is a given also brakes, steering, coolant the transmission was done last year.
Here is to going over that 200,000 mile mark.

 

[socialleper]

I just went to look for used Camrys on the web. The "certified" used ones are almost the same price as a new one. What a joke. so much for that idea.

 

[two fingers]

We spend a lot of time giving each other the business about the various qualities of expensive basses, but I wanted to turn that discussion towards something else- cars.

A little background on me: My parents were always broke, so growing up my mom only ever had hand-me-downs and used cars. My dad's were usually work vehicles. They were never fancy; mostly wagons, hatchbacks, and sub-compacts. I carried on the tradition of having throw away cars no one else wanted until I was 30. Since then both cars were basic compacts, the first started croaking at 120k, and now the other is starting to go at 103k. My second car is only 4 years old BTW!
Seeing the writing on the wall, I'm starting to look around at other $20k-ish compacts. I'm not in as dire financial straights as I once was, so I let my eyes wander from the "What's the cheapest thing you got" aisle. Once I started doing the math, I was shocked at how quickly the payments on a $30k, $40k, or even $50k car got out of control. I just thought they were nice looking, but yikes!
So since I've never owned or really been around these I what I see as expensive cars, I don't know "Are they worth it?" Do more expensive cars last longer? Their gas mileage doesn't seem to be better. Sure, the engines have more HP, but I'm not taking it to the track; HP doesn't matter much when you are sitting in traffic most of the time. Leather interior seems like a pain. Is the ride supremely better? Is there really such a thing as driving pleasure?
What am I missing?

A modern-era four-year-old car starting to crap out at just over 100K miles is the exception rather than the rule these days.

You either got a lemon or bought one crappy car!!!

 

[socialleper]

A modern-era four-year-old car starting to crap out at just over 100K miles is the exception rather than the rule these days.

You either got a lemon or bought one crappy car!!!

I honestly think I'm jinxed when it comes to cars. If there is a nail or screw in the road, it is going to be in my tire. If some random thing its my windshield, its totally going to crack it.
Whose stereo just stops working at $100k? This guy, that's who.

 

[Pilgrim]

Yup.
That 170,000+ Volvo and close to that Toyota van I mentioned I got them used 10+ years ago and this is how they sill go. Though they both have a reputation for long life also.

Some years we only spend $100 on maintenance items like fluids and maybe a small part and other years we spend around $500-800 for timing belt, tires or some other large repair. That is still much cheaper than buying another car/car payments.
Being that they were both used an bought paid in full the maintenance/repair cost is the only money going into them, and it is WAYYY less that three months of payments on a new car or lease.

So not including gas I have never spent over a thousand dollars over a year on our cars for repair or maintenance. I keep track of this.

This summer I replaced All of the Fluids in the Volvo and Toyota for under $100 each. Oil is a given also brakes, steering, coolant the transmission was done last year.
Here is to going over that 200,000 mile mark.

And that, boyz und gurlz, Mesdames and Messieurs, ladeez and gemmunz, is how it's done!

It doesn't matter if the radio fails, the tire goes flat, the water pump fails, etc. You just replace it and keep driving. Cheaper than replacing the car.

 

[Stewie26]

No one here has mentioned keeping a car's cosmetic appearance looking great. To me, that is also on top of the maintenance list. My friends say I am OCD about keeping my autos, even the older one, looking like new. Is that just me or do any others do the same? They get waxed and detailed every six months, even if they appear that they don't need it. End result is my 30 year old car's original factory paint looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. Also, I enjoy the manual labor of detailing a car. Maybe I am just a little crazy.

 

[Pilgrim]

Agreed. although I do NOT enjoy cleaning or waxing cars, but I'll put a coat on it about once a year to preserve it.

My 35-year old 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo. Admittedly, I have been able to keep it garaged for about 2/3 of that time.

And here's my 2008 BMW 328xi Sportwagon, 125K miles:

 

[Stewie26]

Agreed. although I do NOT enjoy cleaning or waxing cars, but I'll put a coat on it about once a year to preserve it.

My 35-year old 1983 Datsun 280ZX Turbo. Admittedly, I have been able to keep it garaged for about 2/3 of that time.


View attachment 3135183

And here's my 2008 BMW 328xi Sportwagon, 125K miles:

Those look great. Admittedly, it is also much easier to keep a car looking good if you are in a fair weather climate like here is SoCal. Also, when looking to purchase a used car, I prefer cars with a southwest history.

 

[S-Bigbottom]

No one here has mentioned keeping a car's cosmetic appearance looking great. To me, that is also on top of the maintenance list. My friends say I am OCD about keeping my autos, even the older one, looking like new. Is that just me or do any others do the same? They get waxed and detailed every six months, even if they appear that they don't need it. End result is my 30 year old car's original factory paint looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor. Also, I enjoy the manual labor of detailing a car. Maybe I am just a little crazy.
View attachment 3135168

That too.
Besides looking good it keep the plastics and rubbers from becoming brittle.

 

[Pilgrim]

That too.
Besides looking good it keep the plastics and rubbers from becoming brittle.

About once a year I go over all the rubber door and compartment seals on my cars with a can of silicone spray to preserve the rubber. Of course, I try to avoid overspray on paint, but it really does help keeping seals flexible and functional.

 

[fdeck]

Don't forget that your bass should be worth more than your car.

 

[hbarcat]

Now we're entering a different territory - the cost of maintaining a car that is 20+ years old and has a "book" value of less than $1,000, no matter how pristine it is.

Just yesterday I sold my 74 Mercedes Benz, even though it still runs and drives, because it needs all new suspension, which will cost about $3,000 (it's a 45 year old Mercedes!) and there are multiple other small issues that together make it less like fun and more like a chore to own and drive. Bottom line is, I could fix everything that needed fixing for about $5,000 and I'd end up with a car that was worth only $3,000. In its day, it was praised for its combination of high performance and luxury, but by today's standard its performance is less than mediocre, it is no more "luxurious" than a new, entry level econo-box, and it gets a wallet draining 14 mpg.

This is no longer a practical daily driver. I sold it to a Mercedes enthusiast/collector for $500 with his promise that he would fix it up himself (he has his own restoration shop/business) and not send it to the crusher.

It really is possible to keep any car alive virtually forever by simply replacing parts as they break or wear out (as long as it isn't cracked and bent in an accident) but the question is: Is it economically feasible to do so? A basic commuter car with 200,000 miles on the odometer that runs and drives perfectly and has no significant issues might nevertheless be no longer derivable because of undercarriage rust issues that compromise the integrity of the entire vehicle. If the car's structure is actually falling apart, that's almost certainly much more money to fix than the car is worth. You have to know when to walk away.

 

[Pilgrim]

Don't forget that your bass should be worth more than your car.

Nope, and I don't agree. My most expensive bass cost me about $1300 and that's probably the most expensive I'll ever buy. It's a Gretsch ThunderJet, and it's magnificent!

It really is possible to keep any car alive virtually forever by simply replacing parts as they break or wear out (as long as it isn't cracked and bent in an accident) but the question is: Is it economically feasible to do so? A basic commuter car with 200,000 miles on the odometer that runs and drives perfectly and has no significant issues might nevertheless be no longer derivable because of undercarriage rust issues that compromise the integrity of the entire vehicle. If the car's structure is actually falling apart, that's almost certainly much more money to fix than the car is worth. You have to know when to walk away.

"Economically feasible" has a variety of meanings. To me, if I like the car and have the money to keep it going, I don't care if I spend more than its resale value. Having the available money and the desire to keep it makes it economically feasible. (Smart? Who knows. But feasible.)

 

[Downunderwonder]

I don't know if it is, because like many basses, you can't really go try one out in a realistic way. Sure, you can drive one for 5 minutes at a dealership and spend the next 30 trying to get the salesman off your back, but that isn't really the same thing.

What I'm trying to is get info from people that know more about these things than I do. I think I spelled out that for me "worth it" would be objective, practical improvements in durability and reliability; would be technological advancements that make the vehicle more efficient since I drive a lot; and if there are any real changes that make the actual drive more comfortable or pleasant.
If a Corolla and a Camry have the exact same transmission, suspension, and engine, that means there won't be a substantial increase in reliability, and the efficiency might be less in the bigger car because of its size. So then that wouldn't be worth it, since size is a small factor for me; I'm alone in my car 90% of the time, I'm a class D\Barefaced kinda guy, I don't have toys that need hauling, and my wife has an SUV for big stuff.
Similarly, if a Lexus was to use the same tech, and they just have nicer interiors and a shinier badge, that isn't worth anything to me. However, if they have a more precision engine that will keep ticking longer, that does mean something to me. Horse Power is nice, but isn't worth a lot to me since my drive a straight shot of 75mph on the freeway for 35-40 minutes. I was able to get 80k out of my brakes because I don't sit in a lot of stop and go.
What I really want is to not have to think about my car anymore. I'm sort of jealous of the posters that say they've been able to get 200k out of cars that only needed gas and oil (tires and brakes are unavoidable as well.) I've only been driving for 23 years (I didn't get a car until I was 20) but it would be hard for me to add up the number of them that I've gone through. I'm over the revolving door. I would have held on to my Mazda 3, but the fates just weren't having it. My Focus has been one thing after another, although admittedly, and thankfully, nothing super serious.

A straight shot down the freeway is the easiest milage you will ever find. You should be getting 300,000 miles out of a motor no problem. As soon as you hear a little noise, straight into the shop, fix, keep on trucking.

Afaik your Corolla is the same as our Corolla, ditto Camry. There shouldn't be any common motors or transmissions unless you have some hell hoofy Corolla that somehow fits Camry bits or a underpowered shopping cart Camry.

I once had a 1600 Corona from about 72. It was about the size of a modern Corolla. The fun thing about it was someone had transplanted a much newer Corona 2l motor into it.

 

[fdeck]

Now we're entering a different territory - the cost of maintaining a car that is 20+ years old and has a "book" value of less than $1,000, no matter how pristine it is.

...

You have to know when to walk away.

Yup, it's the good old bathtub curve:

Bathtub curve - Wikipedia

An issue for me is if the car starts eating away at my time, or is likely to leave me stranded somewhere. And I've had cars that were rusted out badly enough that I no longer thought they were safe.

 

[hbarcat]

"Economically feasible" has a variety of meanings. To me, if I like the car and have the money to keep it going, I don't care if I spend more than its resale value. Having the available money and the desire to keep it makes it economically feasible. (Smart? Who knows. But feasible.)

I agree 100%. To me there is a difference between an ordinary econo-box that has gotten old, and an old car that has some "special" value, regardless of its book value. I don't mind junking a 2002 Chevy Caviler if it's going to cost a lot more to fix than it would to buy a better replacement. It's a different story with a vehicle that I really like for some reason.

I have an '88 Merkur XR4 that I bought for $1,500 two years ago and have since put another $2,000 into it. I drive it every day in the warmer months (it's stored in winter) and have further plans to put probably another $2,000 - $3,000 into it before I'm done. No matter how much money I put into this car and no matter how many "improvements" I make, it will never be worth more than $3,000 at most.

Is this smart? My family and friends have been pretty vocal about telling me that I'm an idiot. But the truth is, I have a special affection for this particular car and I want to keep it and drive it for the rest of my life.