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Are people just intoxicated all the time?

That Pete Wentz bass thread got me thinking. I don't like Fallout Boy. But once I was at a bar and about three beers deep, and one of their songs came on. In that state I kinda enjoyed Fallout Boy.

Then there's that old joke:
What did the sober Deadhead say to the other sober Deadhead?
"What's this awful music playing?"

And thinking back to highschool, I worked with this kid who was a really good rapper. He could have had a career at it if he wanted to. Then he discovered weed and downers, and was thereafter always high. The music he made before was really good. The music he made after was terrible.

And the more I think about it, the more it occurs to me that lots of people spend a lot of their free time intoxicated. I'm not judging, I've had my stretches of working a crappy job and wanting a couple drinks after work every night. But it's more and more common for people to talk about it these days, it seems.

I hear more discussion about people smoking every day or taking edibles, or coming in to work on Mondays badly hung over.

I think that no matter what genres you listen to, you'll probably agree that most of it is not stuff you'd choose to hear. It's not all stuff that would make you change the radio, but what really stands out and makes you want to listen is the exceptional stuff, not the majority of what's available.

Looking at my own experiences of tolerating, or even enjoying, what I think of as bad music while I've been in an altered state, it makes me wonder: is there as much less than great music around because people are intoxicated a lot? 🤔
 
Looking at my own experiences of tolerating, or even enjoying, what I think of as bad music while I've been in an altered state, it makes me wonder: is there as much less than great music around because people are intoxicated a lot? 🤔
Intoxicated, tasteless, youth, tone deafness....probably a few things that keep "bad music" around :roflmao:

On a tangent...while I fully advocate people's freedom to do what they want with their bodies (on a systemic level), personally I continue to see intoxicants really messing up the lives/health of people I know. Had a long-time friend who started working at a vape shop a few years ago and got introduced to some "psychadelic edibles" by some new friends he made working there. He's now in a psych ward at a hospital, claiming he has God's soul inside him and he has to die so Satan and the demons can be forgiven and go to Heaven....

So yeah...not a big advocate of anything like that on a personal level
 
I think that no matter what genres you listen to, you'll probably agree that most of it is not stuff you'd choose to hear. It's not all stuff that would make you change the radio, but what really stands out and makes you want to listen is the exceptional stuff, not the majority of what's available.

 
Intoxicated, tasteless, youth, tone deafness....probably a few things that keep "bad music" around :roflmao:

On a tangent...while I fully advocate people's freedom to do what they want with their bodies (on a systemic level), personally I continue to see intoxicants really messing up the lives/health of people I know. Had a long-time friend who started working at a vape shop a few years ago and got introduced to some "psychadelic edibles" by some new friends he made working there. He's now in a psych ward at a hospital, claiming he has God's soul inside him and he has to die so Satan and the demons can be forgiven and go to Heaven....

So yeah...not a big advocate of anything like that on a personal level
ah yes, that famously culturally out-of-touch group, youth
 
I would argue that moderation is the important thing with the "good good". Some people imbibe because of life, some people imbibe because of physical injuries and mental issues. There are valid reasons and then there are crutches. But, that's pretty much applicable to everything if you ponder it. Some people actually unburden their brain when they get toasted and are more creative. However, one of the producers I worked with did state that it was an issue with some of the bands he recorded. They would get higher than a giraffe is tall, record a bunch of stuff at night and then decide to delete it the next day when they listened to it sober. He was happy to take their money for the recording time, but he also saw it as a tremendous waste of time.
All that to say this... I have to be high to listen to the Grateful Dead. Phil Lesh (RIP my brother) couldn't find a down beat if it kicked him in the chest. That's his playing style and what made him so unique, but it drives me CRAZY.
 
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The phrase 'correlation does not imply causation' comes to mind here. I know people who are stone sober all the time who have horrible taste in music in terms of what they listen to. I also know people who play badly while sober... and even worse when they drink or use other substances. Then there are people who play brilliantly who never touched anything... Frank Zappa comes to mind. In short - it's impossible to make a blanket statement like that. There's TONS of nuance to be considered.

Brad Mehldau, one of the most innovative and unique pianists in modern jazz, was a barely functional heroin junkie when he was making some of his most celebrated records in the mid 90s.... and he played on a lot of other peoples' records while deep in his heroin phase as well. I would have never known it at the time. Brad later detailed that journey in his memoir he published a few years ago. His drug abuse stemmed from emotional trauma and crushing self esteem issues, and not even the height of world tours with some of the best jazz players around filled that void.

So no - not everyone is walking around stoned, drunk, or high all the time. Alcohol sales are at their lowest point in decades. Cannabis use is definitely up, because it's used for a lot of purposes other than just getting high. That said, we are in a very volatile time where unemployment is rising due to AI killing off jobs on all levels, income inequality is increasing homelessness and homes are out of reach for many new homebuyers, people are drowning in debt trying to keep up, rent is through the roof, and almost every consumer safety net and protection is being eroded, and health care is virtually unobtainable outside of full time employment (the biggest scam ever). So yeah.... people might just be a little stressed and are self-soothing on some levels. Welcome to America.

Getting back OT --> Speaking only for myself, I have never heard any recording from the days when I used to drink that makes me believe alcohol makes anyone play better. I listen back to gigs from 15-20 years ago with certain bands and remember how many beers in I would be, and I can definitely tell on the recording. I was always the most sober one on stage, and major mistakes were rare, but it was the little things with feel and execution that I know would have been better had I been sober. There were also bands I played with, especially in sub situations, where I would never drink. There's one record I made in early 2021 as we were coming out of COVID that I can't listen to because I instantly remember how hung over I was for 2 of the 3 sessions. Would someone notice listening to it? Probably not. The playing isn't bad... but I know it could have been better. Stuff like that.

I quit drinking on gigs years before I quit drinking altogether. It's been 4.5 years since I gave it up totally and I don't regret it.
 
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My taste in music kept evolving over the years, and I'm pained to listen to some of the stuff I thought was absolutely the best when I was a teenager. So I think youth and inexperience may play a part in creating an audience for ummm...less well developed music. OTOH, I still can't stand the music I couldn't stand back then.

As for intoxicants, we evolved to tolerate alcohol because it plays a useful role in our social lives. Music also plays a useful role in our social lives, so the two often go together. The two places you'll always find music are churches and bars, and that's not a coincidence.
 
I strongly disagree with this premise. First, I know completely sober people who listen to terrible music. I know wasted people who listen to terrible music. As well as both types with good taste in music. Yes, enough drugs will make a ceiling fan sound cool, but mine hasn't had any top 40 hits. The implication that modern music is worse is just a bias because only the gems from back in the day have survived. Pick a random date in a year that had great music. Listen to the top 40 hits from that week. Cringe as you realize not everything from 1978 or whatever was epic. I tried doing this and it was painful.
 
I strongly disagree with this premise. First, I know completely sober people who listen to terrible music. I know wasted people who listen to terrible music. As well as both types with good taste in music. Yes, enough drugs will make a ceiling fan sound cool, but mine hasn't had any top 40 hits. The implication that modern music is worse is just a bias because only the gems from back in the day have survived. Pick a random date in a year that had great music. Listen to the top 40 hits from that week. Cringe as you realize not everything from 1978 or whatever was epic. I tried doing this and it was painful.
I never said anything about modern music being worse than old music.
 
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IMHO the ratio of crap to quality is fairly constant through the decades
It's the longevity of quality that creates the impression of "less good music now"
Exactly. I have an older friend who just won't stop ripping anything recorded after 1974 (Physical Graffiti) as trash, and before that there was nothing but absolute magic, it was total rock nirvana. One night I started pulling up weekly top 10 singles charts from random weeks of way back then. He didn't even recognize the names of 2/3 of them.

Some things get remembered, the rest fade away. That isn't an indictment against the new, just a cycle.
 
The phrase 'correlation does not imply causation' comes to mind here. I know people who are stone sober all the time who have horrible taste in music in terms of what they listen to. I also know people who play badly while sober... and even worse when they drink or use other substances. Then there are people who play brilliantly who never touched anything... Frank Zappa comes to mind. In short - it's impossible to make a blanket statement like that. There's TONS of nuance to be considered.

Brad Mehldau, one of the most innovative and unique pianists in modern jazz, was a barely functional heroin junkie when he was making some of his most celebrated records in the mid 90s.... and he played on a lot of other peoples' records while deep in his heroin phase as well. I would have never known it at the time. Brad later detailed that journey in his memoir he published a few years ago. His drug abuse stemmed from emotional trauma and crushing self esteem issues, and not even the height of world tours with some of the best jazz players around filled that void.

So no - not everyone is walking around stoned, drunk, or high all the time. Alcohol sales are at their lowest point in decades. Cannabis use is definitely up, because it's used for a lot of purposes other than just getting high. That said, we are in a very volatile time where unemployment is rising due to AI killing off jobs on all levels, income inequality is increasing homelessness and homes are out of reach for many new homebuyers, people are drowning in debt trying to keep up, rent is through the roof, and almost every consumer safety net and protection is being eroded, and health care is virtually unobtainable outside of full time employment (the biggest scam ever). So yeah.... people might just be a little stressed and are self-soothing on some levels. Welcome to America.

Getting back OT --> Speaking only for myself, I have never heard any recording from the days when I used to drink that makes me believe alcohol makes anyone play better. I listen back to gigs from 15-20 years ago with certain bands and remember how many beers in I would be, and I can definitely tell on the recording. I was always the most sober one on stage, and major mistakes were rare, but it was the little things with feel and execution that I know would have been better had I been sober. There were also bands I played with, especially in sub situations, where I would never drink. There's one record I made in early 2021 as we were coming out of COVID that I can't listen to because I instantly remember how hung over I was for 2 of the 3 sessions. Would someone notice listening to it? Probably not. The playing isn't bad... but I know it could have been better. Stuff like that.

I quit drinking on gigs years before I quit drinking altogether. It's been 4.5 years since I gave it up totally and I don't regret it.
There's a Miles Davis recording featuring John Coltrane when Coltrane was hungover and strung out, and he sounds AWFUL.
 
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