My goodness! What are the controls for this awesome creation? I can't tell if you have stacked knobs there. I imagine you need a way to sweep the filters, in addition to volumes.
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Aria & Aria Pro II Club (Part Four)
- Thread starter Deathblade Eric
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My goodness! What are the controls for this awesome creation? I can't tell if you have stacked knobs there. I imagine you need a way to sweep the filters, in addition to volumes.
Currently it's setup as independent volume for each pickup and then what originally was the rotary selector is now the filter preamp, and then a 3 way switch for each pickup. I planned to send it to Pat Wilkins to be refinished but got impatient and wired it up myself. I have stacked pots and the original knobs so I can keep the volume and tone, but with the filter preamp honestly I don't know if a tone knob has much value to me.
One thing to note with these pickups and preamp, the internal trimpot has a lot of range. They can be as low output as vintage passives all the way up to a spector on 10. The problem though is slap and popping causes a lot of internal clipping so it's tricky finding a good balance.
Correct, I wouldn't mind having independent filters but this setup made the most sense to me.
Aria Pro II heads any info would be appreciated.
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/help-deep-identify-nos-aria-strings.1653776/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/help-deep-identify-nos-aria-strings.1653776/
Wow, I've seen Aria effects pedals, but I've never seen Aria branded strings. I wouldn't mind having a pack to display, but I wouldn't pay much. I'd probably pay $20 for all four of those.
Price is a steal. He told me there are another 3 sealed unopened boxes with 5 sets in each. So I guess they're just like ordered from factory back then, left unsold, with only one set of the fourth box being sold. Asked about 50 bucks for the whole 19 set lot.
Can anyone tell from pics if they could be any flats in there? Mostly use flats here so even free I wouldn't care so much getting them.
On the other hand I have a large collection of old MIJ instruments it would be a good bet to get them freshly dressed. Like most things strings are getting more and more expensive in our days guys.
That's why I'm asking if they worth it. Meaning if they can give to all of my 70-90s MIJ basses that old mojo.
I'm after that dead flat tone, think that if in good condition in some cases I even leave previous owner's old flats on some of my 80s MIJ basses. Crazy.
Can anyone tell from pics if they could be any flats in there? Mostly use flats here so even free I wouldn't care so much getting them.
On the other hand I have a large collection of old MIJ instruments it would be a good bet to get them freshly dressed. Like most things strings are getting more and more expensive in our days guys.
That's why I'm asking if they worth it. Meaning if they can give to all of my 70-90s MIJ basses that old mojo.
I'm after that dead flat tone, think that if in good condition in some cases I even leave previous owner's old flats on some of my 80s MIJ basses. Crazy.
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Being that old, they may behave like flats! They look well sealed, but even plastic is not impervious. 
I say get 'em man!
I say get 'em man!
Yeap I'll probably go for them.
Weird. I have identified some of the more unknown E.T. spieces out there, from Frankensteins, or unknown/decal unlabeled Moridaira's, Matsumoko's and heavy modded tube amps / clones & gear to old Italian unlabeled early Vox etc organs & e-pianos.
Drives me crazy I cannot find out any info.
As I can see from one pic maybe there's some writing on the back of the plastic sleeves but I don't want to ask further to avoid catching his attention. Then he starts to search it more, asks other guys, or thinks it is smthng too rare so that's why I'm asking for more pics. He finally ends up asking 100 for the sets. Don't ask how I know.
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Interesting news - a client needing advice on whether the preamp in their "SB-R60" needed replacing or not turned out to have acquired an SB-R150, sans pickups and a few other parts. Obviously there was no model number on the truss rod cover since they were a straight flat brass plate type. I invited to share with the club, as R150s are rare enough that it's good to know where they exist, and so that we can exchange knowledge, support, etc. It also isn't an unfair view that in the right hands, these R150s are worth a good penny, restored or not. They certainly rank up there in my top ten or top twenty if I had the resources to realise them! It's a privilege to help a capable owner restore a rare bird such as this to being a player. If they ever get loosed, it would be nice to think that they are known about here to maximise the chances of them staying in the hands of Aria Pro II enthusiasts.
So the main parts being replaced in this R150 are the toggle switch, preamp, wiring loom and pots. The varitone seems to be in place, however there's no immediate way to check for function. Oddly, the LED blinker still functions. I'm almost preaching to the choir here, however they tend to become problematic with age as the caps become leaky and other issues. The upshot of this is that the high current draw of the old 70s/80s 4mm bead LED coupled with old caps causes the blinker circuit to push spike noise into the battery supply, which in turn is audible in the signal as the noise disrupts the preamp supply stability. Fun times. Normally I recommend that some choice is made here, whether to disconnect the old blinker circuit, use a spare pole on the toggle switch (if replaced) to form an active/passive indicator, increase the series resistor and directly attach it to the supply as a power indicator, etc. I have no idea what will happen here, but for anybody experiencing clicking issues with their 80s SB-1000, there are options. My preferred option is the least ideal, replacing the 4mm bead and bezel with a larger standard modern low-current 5mm LED. It doesn't solve the blinker issue, but it's a lot kinder on the batteries.
The toggle switch was a little unique in the R150, or at least the switch end cap was. The modern equivalent would be a dual-pole Switchcraft right-angled toggle as used in doubleneck guitars/basses. Without putting additional thought into this, I imagine the reasoning for using a double-pole variant is that the R150 also had the same active circuit with backup passive mode overlaid. Already an overcomplicated solution to an issue that had far better options for being addressed. Since the dual value dual gang pots are missing, they can only be replaced with straight 20-25k pots with the circuit resembling the 70s active-only SB-1000. In my opinion, this is more ideal since single-gang pots are available in larger sizes, which are more reliable and durable than mini pots. Going active only also means that the switch can be single-pole rather than retaining the option of reconfiguring both ends of the coils against a traditional passive circuit and a ground-lifting differential input amplifier.
Restoration is always a strange game in my view, but always depends on how far anybody is truly willing to go....and why. Absolute restoration to original spec carries with it the burden of the passive backup mode, an option that doesn't make a lot of sense when the causes that required it (old 70s silicon, excess quiescent current draw, LED blinker with power-hungry early LED tech, old batteries being lower capacity than modern equivalents) were just avoidable, moreso now. Passive mode in these basses doesn't carry any tonal benefits (beyond those falsely perceived) as with other basses, since the preamp (when set wide open with the varitone) is only eliminating induced noise and providing the signal with low output impedance that eliminates cable losses. If that rolloff is desirable, the tone pot can dial this in or it can be EQed further down the chain. How people feel about the nature of this difference between active/passive is not my call, but it is what it is. It sounds more trebly, because that treble can get lost over cable runs, and that's the "true" sound of the pickups.
I don't know how many people here are versed in electronics history, but here's a summary of how preamps used to be built and why the modern preamps in reissues are silly. The JRC4558 is in principle closer than a cousin to the uA741. Those were the classic opamps of the 80s that everybody who built DIY pedals and audio circuits first encountered. You can still buy those today (such as from TI - https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ua741.pdf) but it's an unnecessary hangover, driven solely from how cheaply they can be purchased. They drink the juice and aren't really that quiet, especially if you use any sort of amount of gain. Current commercial prices have gone up over the last few years, but the uA741 and RC4558 are still literally cheap as chips. And crap. I understand why TS enthusiasts like the original JRCs, because of an flaw that causes them to act in a certain pleasing way. That's cool and all, but none of that applies in this configuration. I can't stress enough how much taking advantage of modern silicon makes, as in this case, vintage sucks.
So my 5-string SB-R150/SB-1000 hybrid (which I am certain will draw love and hate in equal quantities) gave me the platform to do what Aria Pro II - or whoever is currently leveraging that IP - refuse to do; build the electronics to a standard that is as good as they can get, use selected components that are not viable for mass-manufactured instruments, all without sacrificing the fundamental principle of the original design. The gains aren't huge, admittedly. The SB-1000 was never "bad" to begin with. The view halfway up Ben Lomond is still spectacular, but if you can climb, do so. It would be nice to think that I could make all preamps solely with the OPA2107, but at their unit price....mmmm....not really.
Sorry for the aimless mumble. That was this week anyway. I also lost my job.
So the main parts being replaced in this R150 are the toggle switch, preamp, wiring loom and pots. The varitone seems to be in place, however there's no immediate way to check for function. Oddly, the LED blinker still functions. I'm almost preaching to the choir here, however they tend to become problematic with age as the caps become leaky and other issues. The upshot of this is that the high current draw of the old 70s/80s 4mm bead LED coupled with old caps causes the blinker circuit to push spike noise into the battery supply, which in turn is audible in the signal as the noise disrupts the preamp supply stability. Fun times. Normally I recommend that some choice is made here, whether to disconnect the old blinker circuit, use a spare pole on the toggle switch (if replaced) to form an active/passive indicator, increase the series resistor and directly attach it to the supply as a power indicator, etc. I have no idea what will happen here, but for anybody experiencing clicking issues with their 80s SB-1000, there are options. My preferred option is the least ideal, replacing the 4mm bead and bezel with a larger standard modern low-current 5mm LED. It doesn't solve the blinker issue, but it's a lot kinder on the batteries.
The toggle switch was a little unique in the R150, or at least the switch end cap was. The modern equivalent would be a dual-pole Switchcraft right-angled toggle as used in doubleneck guitars/basses. Without putting additional thought into this, I imagine the reasoning for using a double-pole variant is that the R150 also had the same active circuit with backup passive mode overlaid. Already an overcomplicated solution to an issue that had far better options for being addressed. Since the dual value dual gang pots are missing, they can only be replaced with straight 20-25k pots with the circuit resembling the 70s active-only SB-1000. In my opinion, this is more ideal since single-gang pots are available in larger sizes, which are more reliable and durable than mini pots. Going active only also means that the switch can be single-pole rather than retaining the option of reconfiguring both ends of the coils against a traditional passive circuit and a ground-lifting differential input amplifier.
Restoration is always a strange game in my view, but always depends on how far anybody is truly willing to go....and why. Absolute restoration to original spec carries with it the burden of the passive backup mode, an option that doesn't make a lot of sense when the causes that required it (old 70s silicon, excess quiescent current draw, LED blinker with power-hungry early LED tech, old batteries being lower capacity than modern equivalents) were just avoidable, moreso now. Passive mode in these basses doesn't carry any tonal benefits (beyond those falsely perceived) as with other basses, since the preamp (when set wide open with the varitone) is only eliminating induced noise and providing the signal with low output impedance that eliminates cable losses. If that rolloff is desirable, the tone pot can dial this in or it can be EQed further down the chain. How people feel about the nature of this difference between active/passive is not my call, but it is what it is. It sounds more trebly, because that treble can get lost over cable runs, and that's the "true" sound of the pickups.
I don't know how many people here are versed in electronics history, but here's a summary of how preamps used to be built and why the modern preamps in reissues are silly. The JRC4558 is in principle closer than a cousin to the uA741. Those were the classic opamps of the 80s that everybody who built DIY pedals and audio circuits first encountered. You can still buy those today (such as from TI - https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ua741.pdf) but it's an unnecessary hangover, driven solely from how cheaply they can be purchased. They drink the juice and aren't really that quiet, especially if you use any sort of amount of gain. Current commercial prices have gone up over the last few years, but the uA741 and RC4558 are still literally cheap as chips. And crap. I understand why TS enthusiasts like the original JRCs, because of an flaw that causes them to act in a certain pleasing way. That's cool and all, but none of that applies in this configuration. I can't stress enough how much taking advantage of modern silicon makes, as in this case, vintage sucks.
So my 5-string SB-R150/SB-1000 hybrid (which I am certain will draw love and hate in equal quantities) gave me the platform to do what Aria Pro II - or whoever is currently leveraging that IP - refuse to do; build the electronics to a standard that is as good as they can get, use selected components that are not viable for mass-manufactured instruments, all without sacrificing the fundamental principle of the original design. The gains aren't huge, admittedly. The SB-1000 was never "bad" to begin with. The view halfway up Ben Lomond is still spectacular, but if you can climb, do so. It would be nice to think that I could make all preamps solely with the OPA2107, but at their unit price....mmmm....not really.
Sorry for the aimless mumble. That was this week anyway. I also lost my job.
Nice update!
I'm "Walling" a TSB650 that somebody already started cutting on.
Working on the neck at the moment, have a Rautia multicoil set and Underwood preamp that will be going in as soon as I finish cleaning up the woodwork.
Is it possible you have some sort of undiscovered intermittent connection that is disturbed by slapping that is causing the popping?
@Prostheta sorry to hear about the job buddy. Hope you're able to land something quickly.
Fabulous write-up. I, for one, say give me progress! Leave the concours correct stuff for extremely rare cars and early Gibson/Fenders. I want to PLAY my beasts.
Sorry about your job man! I am not worried, though. Anyone would be blessed to have your talents! It's just a matter of time before you find something more amazing than what you had.
I feel weird "liking" the post where you say you lost your job but I'm sure that will be a very temporary situation.
So... how many SB-R150 5'ers would you like to make for us?
So... how many SB-R150 5'ers would you like to make for us?
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Indeed. Very sorry, Pro. A guy with your talents should NOT be out of work. FWIW, sending good vibes across the sea to you. Best of luck, and keep us posted on how you're doing.
This post made me think of this bass. I got it a while back. I'm not sure what it is. I've been told SB1000 and SB-R150.
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My immediate thought is that it's the ill-named "SB-1000", a much newer model with TWO pickups. Ay yay ay Aria! Y U do?! 
But do tell what it sounds like!
But do tell what it sounds like!
