Arpeggios and not playing the root on the one

[RitterSport]

I'm taking lessons and my teacher has me learning arpeggios and working them into bass lines. He wants me to start playing the second, third, and fourth inversions as a way of mixing up the sounds and also to make it easier to transition from one root to the next.

I'm having a hard time making any of it sound good, unless I start on the 7 or flat 7 just before the one, hitting the root on the one, and continuing from there.

Are there examples of great rock or blues bass lines (no jazz) where there are arpeggios and they don't start with the root on the one? Say, playing the third inversion of a minor 7th in, say, C, then switching to the second inversion (or whatever) of a dominant 7th in F?

It all sounds "wrong" to me, unless I get that root on the one. I think if I had some examples, it could fall into place.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Are you sure he's not having you mix up the patterns after you play the root on the one? Because if you don't play that root note on the first beat, you're changing the harmony of the song.

Maybe you could ask your teacher for some examples of what he's trying to show you

 

[RitterSport]

I don't really know. I'll ask him.

 

[mambo4]

Cliff Williams of AC/DC does it in Back in Black.


That said, changing the root note to another chord tone inverts the chord and changes the sound.
This is best done by agreement with others that this is in fact how the song goes.
You might want to google "popular songs with slash chords". Study bass has a list of some

The peril of playing in an inversion on a whim is that it can weaken the flow and impact of the phrase, it has less resolution than a root, and potentially sound wrong even if it harmonizes. An inversion is better used as a transitional point in a "weak" part of the phrase. Strong parts of the phrase (start, end) want to be punctuated by a nice fat root note.

 

[BrotherMister]

What was the exercise that was set for you? At this stage they may well have give you the inversions as a way to build your fluidity on the neck, establish the sounds and your understanding before showing you how they may be applied in the music?

Inversions are everywhere. A lot of music by singer songwriters often has movements like D, D/F#, G, A the D/F# might happen on the one. You are creating movement in an otherwise static chord.

Or a sequence like C, G, F, G you might play something like C, G/B, F/A, G, C

They crop up everywhere but Paul McCartney's bass playing from Sgt Pepper onwards they are used a lot in his baselines. The chord change might not be on the 1 but the bass tends to play the inversion right on the chord change anyway. Something, While My Guitar Gently Weeps, With A Little Help From My Friends they crop up a lot. Or someone like Elton John uses them a lot in his songs. They crop up all over the place so you've likely heard them, and played them, without being aware of it.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Well, let's get the terminology straight first. If you're working with 4 part chords(let's stick with C maj7), you have root position (C E G B), 1st inversion (E G B C), 2nd inversion (G B C E), and 3rd inversion (B C E G). Those are all the inversions, no 4th inversion.
Check out this exercise, see if that helps.

PS - those are all closed position arpeggios, wait till you get to open position!

 

[JRA]

It all sounds "wrong" to me, unless I get that root on the one.

you're not alone: your future bandmates will think the same thing! but....

i agree with the others: your teacher is helping you to become more fluent/fluid --- exercises like this are important in helping you understand/know where the other notes are...not just the patterns! good luck with your lessons!

 

[RitterSport]

I got more clarity from my teacher -- I can start on the root note, and then do the second inversion (say) on the way to the next chord, where I'll play the root note and, say, the third inversion on the way back to the first chord. The song I'm learning goes A minor 7 to D dominant 7, back to A minor 7.

Sorry about my confusion on the terminology -- I make that mistake all the time. Root, 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I'll try not to screw that up again!

 

[brianrost]

Whole Lotta Love

5-b7-5-b7-R-R(octave)

I'm A Man (Spencer Davis/Chicago)

5-b7-R-R(octave)

Spoonful

b3-R

Born Under A Bad Sign

4-5-b7-R-b3-R

etc., etc.

 

[RitterSport]

Thanks! This is really helpful!

 

[BarfanyShart]

You can play a note other than the root on one exactly twice on a gig without getting fired. I have tested this scientifically.

 

[jchrisk1]

This might be helpful. This excercise can be played in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd inversion as well, for a whopping total of 96 possibilities. Have fun!


Permutations of Chord Tones

 

[JohnnyBottom]

This is a great example imho... ii V starting on the 5 of the ii then the 3 of the V.

 

[Wasnex]

I'm taking lessons and my teacher has me learning arpeggios and working them into bass lines. He wants me to start playing the second, third, and fourth inversions as a way of mixing up the sounds and also to make it easier to transition from one root to the next.

I'm having a hard time making any of it sound good, unless I start on the 7 or flat 7 just before the one, hitting the root on the one, and continuing from there.

Are there examples of great rock or blues bass lines (no jazz) where there are arpeggios and they don't start with the root on the one? Say, playing the third inversion of a minor 7th in, say, C, then switching to the second inversion (or whatever) of a dominant 7th in F?

It all sounds "wrong" to me, unless I get that root on the one. I think if I had some examples, it could fall into place.

Rock...probably few if any.

Blues, if you go more towards the jazzy side, (starting on 3,5,7) its' really no problem at all--if you know how to do it. I can occasionally even throw a 9th on the down beat of a walking line and it sounds great.

You may be getting hung up on your personal belief system. Your instructor is asking you to take a leap of faith. If you want to learn, suspend your belief system and do what your instructor says. Eventually your ears will follow, but you have to do the work first.

I see you put a "no jazz" limit in your post. But here's the deal, jazz is a great medium to actually learn and expand your knowledge of theory because it actually allows you to fully use the theory you are learning. If you insist on sticking with rock and rock based blues, you will be playing much simpler lines--so it's not going to help you learn as much (IMHO). Even if you hate jazz, consider using it as a medium to learn theory. No one is saying you ever have to love jazz.

 

[D Garr]

I'm taking lessons and my teacher has me learning arpeggios and working them into bass lines. He wants me to start playing the second, third, and fourth inversions as a way of mixing up the sounds and also to make it easier to transition from one root to the next.

I'm having a hard time making any of it sound good, unless I start on the 7 or flat 7 just before the one, hitting the root on the one, and continuing from there.

Are there examples of great rock or blues bass lines (no jazz) where there are arpeggios and they don't start with the root on the one? Say, playing the third inversion of a minor 7th in, say, C, then switching to the second inversion (or whatever) of a dominant 7th in F?

It all sounds "wrong" to me, unless I get that root on the one. I think if I had some examples, it could fall into place.

 

[D Garr]

Sounds to me like your teacher may be giving you to much information that is practice just the root position arpeggio in all keys work with a blues play a long then you will begin to internalize the sound. Internalizing the inversions of a arpeggio is not something that can be accomplished in one weeks time.

 

[DylanB]

I'm having a hard time making any of it sound good, unless I start on the 7 or flat 7 just before the one, hitting the root on the one, and continuing from there.

It could just be that it is an unexpected sound. It can be quite different to playing the root on the one, and you’ve done that basically the entire time you’ve been playing bass up until now!

Stick with it, as your ears acclimatise it will seem more natural. You’re right to ask for examples, though I don’t have any examples outside of a jazz context. Maybe Ain’t No Mountain High Enough? Lots of slash chords in that.

 

[teh-slb]

Are there examples of great rock or blues bass lines (no jazz) where there are arpeggios and they don't start with the root on the one?

 

[jj.833]

Not sure whether it qualifies at 'not jazz'. Starting with b7 (D in Em). Very functional.

 

[RitterSport]

Thank you everyone! There are some great exercises and examples here. I'll take some time to go through all of it.