Arpeggios and not playing the root on the one

[cnltb]

I'm taking lessons and my teacher has me learning arpeggios and working them into bass lines. He wants me to start playing the second, third, and fourth inversions as a way of mixing up the sounds and also to make it easier to transition from one root to the next.

I'm having a hard time making any of it sound good, unless I start on the 7 or flat 7 just before the one, hitting the root on the one, and continuing from there.

Are there examples of great rock or blues bass lines (no jazz) where there are arpeggios and they don't start with the root on the one? Say, playing the third inversion of a minor 7th in, say, C, then switching to the second inversion (or whatever) of a dominant 7th in F?

It all sounds "wrong" to me, unless I get that root on the one. I think if I had some examples, it could fall into place.

I have the distinct feeling that the teacher may not have explained the task clearly enough for you to understand it properly. Maybe have them clarify?

 

[RitterSport]

I went back to the teacher and he said I can start on the one, but then try various inversions on the way to the next chord. I didn't have a chance to play around yesterday, but I'll give it a try tonight.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

My day 1 bass lesson at Berklee many years ago.

Rule #1 Root note on the 1 when playing with others.

The reason it doesn't sound right to you is you are now playing in the modes.
That is what happens when the scale starts on anything other than the root note.

Practice is very different than playing with others.
Dirk

 

[Rib 13]

A way to think about this is to think polychords

For example Root-Maj3rd-Fifth starting on G is a G major and Root-Maj3rd-Fifth stating on F is F major (we know that)....but if you stack these chords on top of each other with GMajor on bottom and F Major on top, you are starting the G Dom7 family of chords: G Major with just the F note on top is a G7....add the Major3rd of that F and you have a G9...add the fifth of that F and you have G11.......Keyboard players do this all the time, playing a G Major on the Left hand and a F Major on the Right.....and you can do this with any pair of minor or major triads to construct different types of families depending how they relate -- for example, a minor triad with its relative major triad creates the minor7 family of chords: If you play an A bass note while the guitarist plays a straight C Major, you have both created an Am7

Think of Wonderful Tonight by Eric Clapton....Its pretty much G-D-C (and the bass will play the Major 3rd of the D chord, but thats not what Im talking about) --- Now, instead of playing the bassline, play G where the G chord is, but play a B bass note where the D chord is and an A bass note where the C chord is....You have now made the chords G, Bm7, and Am7 (btw, Nathan East this occasionally when he played with Clapton)

I know you are asking about examples of songs with the bass starting in a different spot but Im trying to explain that its sometimes not about starting a bassline in a spot but more about trying to create a larger ensemble chord picture

 

[OptimalOptimus]

Are you sure he's not having you mix up the patterns after you play the root on the one? Because if you don't play that root note on the first beat, you're changing the harmony of the song.

Maybe you could ask your teacher for some examples of what he's trying to show you

Not 100% true...

if you take a Emin chord and you play C then yes you changed the chord to a Cmaj7 and so change the harmony but if you played G under your Emin chord ... you just did an inversion which is still the same chord.

like playing Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7 with all root notes it sounds « safe »
Dmin7/A G7/B Cmaj7 it already sound more spicy because the lowest pitch goes A B C. A is the 5th of Dmin7, B is the 3rd of G7 and C is the root of Cmaj7. It creates movement, cohesion and makes the whole thing more interesting.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Not 100% true...

if you take a Emin chord and you play C then yes you changed the chord to a Cmaj7 and so change the harmony but if you played G under your Emin chord ... you just did an inversion which is still the same chord.

like playing Dmin7 G7 Cmaj7 with all root notes it sounds « safe »
Dmin7/A G7/B Cmaj7 it already sound more spicy because the lowest pitch goes A B C. A is the 5th of Dmin7, B is the 3rd of G7 and C is the root of Cmaj7. It creates movement, cohesion and makes the whole thing more interesting.

I get all that, but in this case he's just trying to learn a lesson. When you're just learning something for the first time it's best not to be too weird and tricky about it

 

[Rib 13]

I get all that, but in this case he's just trying to learn a lesson. When you're just learning something for the first time it's best not to be too weird and tricky about it

probably true....the teacher probably wants him to start on a third or fifth of a chord and try to think in terms of harmlodics

 

[OptimalOptimus]

I get all that, but in this case he's just trying to learn a lesson. When you're just learning something for the first time it's best not to be too weird and tricky about it

This is how I’ve learned it.
I learned on piano in a theory class during my college degree.

 

[Diana J]

And also practice lots of scales, all types of scales. It may help to think in terms of scales instead of inversions of chords.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This is how I’ve learned it.
I learned on piano in a theory class during my college degree.

Ok great. But here's the thing. In music as in life, when it comes time to focus down on something and figure it out, you need to learn how to turn off the noise and get down to it.

The guy barely knows what an inversion is, so you throwing all that random stuff at him isn't going to help this situation. He just needs to pay attention to what his teacher is showing him right now, today. That's it. All that other stuff comes later.

 

[Nashrakh]

Go old school and harmonize Bach chorales. That's where you learn that the bass doesn't and shouldn't hit the root on the one all the time. I find it weird that that's what the stereotypical role of the bass has become. Thirds are great. Fifths, be wary. Sevenths, you better know what you're doing. (Though what would "the circle of life" be without that slash chord with the 7th in the bass?)

 

[Wasnex]

...here are a couple of none jazz songs I came up with where the bass is not playing the root on one.

 

[Wasnex]

Not sure whether it qualifies at 'not jazz'. Starting with b7 (D in Em). Very functional.

The bassline reminds me of this:

 

[bigboy_78]

I got more clarity from my teacher -- I can start on the root note, and then do the second inversion (say) on the way to the next chord, where I'll play the root note and, say, the third inversion on the way back to the first chord. The song I'm learning goes A minor 7 to D dominant 7, back to A minor 7.

Sorry about my confusion on the terminology -- I make that mistake all the time. Root, 1st, 2nd, 3rd. I'll try not to screw that up again!

Play the root (A) on 1, rest on 2, then pick an inversion and play 3&4& (EGAC), then play the closest note of the next chord on 1 (D) rest and play an inversion on 3&4& (F#ACD) then the next closest not of the next chord (E), rest, pick an inversion etc.

 

[RitterSport]

Yes! That's pretty close to what I've been doing. A-rest-C-E-G-a, D-rest-d-C-A-F#.