Artistry..

[scottfernandez]

I am just beginning my journey as a solo bass artist and I was just curious as to what was the jump off point for seasoned and accomplished artists.

I believe that there is a HUGE difference between being a musician and being and artist. I live my life by this definition, taking both up as they come along.

I believe that a musician is someone who uses music as a means to an end. The money. The fame/popularity. The support. The competition. The acceptance. Etc

I believe that an artist is someone to where the music IS the end. Creating the song or composition is the space in which they live, disregarding the rest and pursuing their "voice".

I do both. I play music as a gigging musician for a contemporary country act and a handful of death/technical/djent metal bands to support my artistry. I play more gigs as an artist, doing my set at any venue that would have me (being that it is very strange to have a solo bass artist on a bill with indie, rock, or metal bands)

I hope that this didn't come off as a bit heavy or verbose. I tend to get a tad long winded in an open forum.

Thank you.

 

[Dr Steve Lawson]

hi Scott,

I think it's important to make some kind of distinction between music as a career pursuit (an incredibly risky career pursuit at that, but one that you can work at in quite specific ways if you're looking at building the skills and repertoire required for the majority of paying gigs - weddings, bars, functions, theatre etc...) and the music that we do cos it feels our souls.

I'm not sure I'd have have made the labeling split between being a 'musician' and being an 'artist' - there's nothing in the general meaning of either work that implies they are mutually exclusive, nor do I think that all 'self focussed' musical pursuits are 'pure' and all paying gigs are somehow degraded. I love the chances I get to play in cover bands, I learn a lot and if I get to pick the setlist, get to tell a part of my own musical story that isn't evident from my solo gigs. That I get paid for doing it is a bonus. I wouldn't want to be stuck doing just that, but the processes involved don't feel significantly less 'artistic' than when I'm playing solo, and likewise I don't feel less of a 'musician' when I'm playing solo - the mechanics of playing my own music are subject to the same laws of physics as a cover gig

So, keep thinking about the distinction, about the unique challenges and opportunities that each poses, but don't get to caught up in the need for neat labels for such things as they may end up confusing something that is otherwise just part of the tapestry of music

Steve
— Steve Lawson: Bass 2.0 — the soundtrack to the day you wish you'd had

 

[scottfernandez]

hi Scott,

I think it's important to make some kind of distinction between music as a career pursuit (an incredibly risky career pursuit at that, but one that you can work at in quite specific ways if you're looking at building the skills and repertoire required for the majority of paying gigs - weddings, bars, functions, theatre etc...) and the music that we do cos it feels our souls.

I'm not sure I'd have have made the labeling split between being a 'musician' and being an 'artist' - there's nothing in the general meaning of either work that implies they are mutually exclusive, nor do I think that all 'self focussed' musical pursuits are 'pure' and all paying gigs are somehow degraded. I love the chances I get to play in cover bands, I learn a lot and if I get to pick the setlist, get to tell a part of my own musical story that isn't evident from my solo gigs. That I get paid for doing it is a bonus. I wouldn't want to be stuck doing just that, but the processes involved don't feel significantly less 'artistic' than when I'm playing solo, and likewise I don't feel less of a 'musician' when I'm playing solo - the mechanics of playing my own music are subject to the same laws of physics as a cover gig

So, keep thinking about the distinction, about the unique challenges and opportunities that each poses, but don't get to caught up in the need for neat labels for such things as they may end up confusing something that is otherwise just part of the tapestry of music

Steve
— Steve Lawson: Bass 2.0 — the soundtrack to the day you wish you'd had

Sorry for the incredibly long delay in response to this. I tend to wax poetic whilst half sleep and starved and forget about any rantings I may have had.

I think that there is NO need for them to be exclusive, either. The purpose of distinction is to define approach.

When I show up to a gig as a musician, I am there to work. I'm not there to show off. I'm not there to play MY music. I'm not there to fill any other roll than the bass player.

When I show up as an artist... I'm there to demonstrate my artistry for anyone who so happens to be there. It's more obviously my "voice" at that time (not to say that a personal flare isn't to be expected of the musician, as well). It also allows me to not be burdened too much by the burdens of other people's opinions, since art itself is so relative.

These distinctions can carry over in a monetary sense, too. When I work as a musician, I expect a certain level of professionalism from the clubs/bands/promoters/managers. Professional compensation as a reward for professional approach.

As an artist (not that I am any less professional in nature or approach or effort), I'm not in it to make the "big bucks". I don't anticipate high pay because artistry does not require that. I make art to make art. It is not a means to an ends but the end itself.

I hope that that may have clarified a tad. Sorry again for the delay and simple ramblings.

 

[Michael Manring]

This is one of the interesting things about music -- while there is a kind of a theoretical spectrum between pure entertainment and pure art, I find, like Steve, that I learn valuable lessons from all kinds of musical situations I've been in. Nevertheless, it's really good to hear you're willing to work from the perspective that music is an end in itself, Scott. It's refreshing to know people still think that way in our highly commercialized world! I think you'll find the fulfillment you get from that point-of-view often outweighs the sacrifices you have to make. Good luck.

 

[scottfernandez]

This is one of the interesting things about music -- while there is a kind of a theoretical spectrum between pure entertainment and pure art, I find, like Steve, that I learn valuable lessons from all kinds of musical situations I've been in. Nevertheless, it's really good to hear you're willing to work from the perspective that music is an end in itself, Scott. It's refreshing to know people still think that way in our highly commercialized world! I think you'll find the fulfillment you get from that point-of-view often outweighs the sacrifices you have to make. Good luck.

I concur. Music is expansive and perpetual and only suffers the limitations of the *insert noun* making it. I am fortunate enough to have found music. That alone makes it worth it =)

Thank you for the incredible well wishes, friend. I have always kind of moved against the grain in this world. The road less traveled yields the rewards that I want in my life.

Also, sacrifices are not required to give a reward. The only thing any action has to give is a result and whether it is good or bad the action itself is what I enjoy most.

Mr. Michael, keep up your good works and keep on pushing what you do out there. I was fortunate enough to happen upon your music in the past year and it's been wonderfully encouraging to see a solo bass artist with talent and integrity (sorry for the delay in doing so.. I avoided listening to any good bass players up until recently because I never wanted their style to come out in my playing. A tad idealistic but I am really glad that I did).

I look forward to talking shop with you again in the near future. Keep on rocking
d-_-b

 

[Robert McVey]

I'm jumping in on this, not as an accomplished musician, but as more of a hobbyist. I've played the bass since I was 13 and now am 41. I've been in a few bands that never really took off, but were fun nonetheless. I have a family at home and work as a plumber to pay the bills.

I continue to play when the time is available and i also do digital art as a hobby and this is why i was compelled to respond. I consider myself to be an artist and a musician. I'm an artist through my sketches, painting and sculpting and a musician through the music i create. Now, there's a question that comes to mind that I consider to be relative to this discussion.

When does it become WORK and do you tend to lose interest at that point??? Does it become more difficult to be creative??? Does it become less of a passion???

I tend to approach art and music in the same sense with no game plan, no theme, no particular mode or key, no particular color...etc Improvisation.

In the past, I have been commissioned to do a few art pieces for people based on a loose vision and worked with them until it they were satisfied. I realized shortly after i didn't feel the need to do any personal work and my creative juices were dried up. I was burnt out because my art had become WORK and i didn't feel as free spirited or as eager to create.

Do any of you ever feel that way when you are gigging or constantly in the studio meeting deadlines???

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I'm jumping in on this, not as an accomplished musician, but as more of a hobbyist. I've played the bass since I was 13 and now am 41. I've been in a few bands that never really took off, but were fun nonetheless. I have a family at home and work as a plumber to pay the bills.

I continue to play when the time is available and i also do digital art as a hobby and this is why i was compelled to respond. I consider myself to be an artist and a musician. I'm an artist through my sketches, painting and sculpting and a musician through the music i create. Now, there's a question that comes to mind that I consider to be relative to this discussion.

When does it become WORK and do you tend to lose interest at that point??? Does it become more difficult to be creative??? Does it become less of a passion???

I tend to approach art and music in the same sense with no game plan, no theme, no particular mode or key, no particular color...etc Improvisation.

In the past, I have been commissioned to do a few art pieces for people based on a loose vision and worked with them until it they were satisfied. I realized shortly after i didn't feel the need to do any personal work and my creative juices were dried up. I was burnt out because my art had become WORK and i didn't feel as free spirited or as eager to create.

Do any of you ever feel that way when you are gigging or constantly in the studio meeting deadlines???

I'm not a pro but after I when to college earning a degree on the DB/EB in a mix of classical and jazz music I joined a band and after two years and starting again some studies, I felt burn out. In fact I was in a depression and I stopped completly playing bass for 3 years. Since december I started playing bass again for my pleasure. But I don't play as often as I used to, but now I play when I want, for as long as I want, with the music I want. I think it is better but still a little hard like there something missing

 

[scottfernandez]

I'm jumping in on this, not as an accomplished musician, but as more of a hobbyist. I've played the bass since I was 13 and now am 41. I've been in a few bands that never really took off, but were fun nonetheless. I have a family at home and work as a plumber to pay the bills.

I continue to play when the time is available and i also do digital art as a hobby and this is why i was compelled to respond. I consider myself to be an artist and a musician. I'm an artist through my sketches, painting and sculpting and a musician through the music i create. Now, there's a question that comes to mind that I consider to be relative to this discussion.

When does it become WORK and do you tend to lose interest at that point??? Does it become more difficult to be creative??? Does it become less of a passion???

I tend to approach art and music in the same sense with no game plan, no theme, no particular mode or key, no particular color...etc Improvisation.

In the past, I have been commissioned to do a few art pieces for people based on a loose vision and worked with them until it they were satisfied. I realized shortly after i didn't feel the need to do any personal work and my creative juices were dried up. I was burnt out because my art had become WORK and i didn't feel as free spirited or as eager to create.

Do any of you ever feel that way when you are gigging or constantly in the studio meeting deadlines???

The operating parameters I'm using are as follows:
Artist: someone who pursues art with no intent to gain. You can do so with music, painitng, drawing, poetry, woodworking, etc. That does not mean that you're not able to sell these things but the PURPOSE of your pursuit is the joy of artistry.

Musician: is someone who uses art as a means to an end. They say things like "hey, it's a gig" or "I've got to sell this to make ends meet". That does not mean that it's devoid of artistry. It just means that the approach and purpose is very different.

 

[scottfernandez]

I play music for a living. I do so in a couple different ways. I will gladly go after a gig as a player to pay the bills but I also spend 6 to 7 hours a day working on techniques that I will NEVER get to use in any band.

I pursue artistic expression because it's what I need. I've been fortunate to have a lot of experiences in my life but there is nothing else for me but artistry.

I play my own shows, of my own music, about 3 nights out of the week and most of the time it's for very few people in crappy bars, smelly jazz caves, and sweaty metal clubs... I play 1 or 2 nights a week for a band for tips or busking on the streets to make enough money to play for free the rest of the week. Just to share my art. Just to show my love for what I do.

Again, it's more than possible to do both and be both. It just helps sets up the approach for the way you make music and the joy you will be able to derive from it.

 

[Robert McVey]

I'm not a pro but after I when to college earning a degree on the DB/EB in a mix of classical and jazz music I joined a band and after two years and starting again some studies, I felt burn out. In fact I was in a depression and I stopped completly playing bass for 3 years. Since december I started playing bass again for my pleasure. But I don't play as often as I used to, but now I play when I want, for as long as I want, with the music I want. I think it is better but still a little hard like there something missing

Wow, i can relate to setting it down for a while and i can remember when i had more time to practice (hours and hours a day). After a while it became repetitive and and i put it down for a while. When i picked it up it seemed fresh again. I wasn't starting where i left off in fact i was re-experiencing the feel of my instrument and letting muscle memory guide my hands, refreshing my sense of pitch and seemed more aware of dynamics, negative space and silence...

There is always certain elements missing and sometimes no means to advance. Right now i am of the thinking that it is partly due to my lack of musical vocabulary, so now i am exploring turkish rhythm, playing percussion and recording it to play along to. Indian rhythm, tablas and sitar music...

It's all good.

 

[Robert McVey]

The operating parameters I'm using are as follows:
Artist: someone who pursues art with no intent to gain. You can do so with music, painitng, drawing, poetry, woodworking, etc. That does not mean that you're not able to sell these things but the PURPOSE of your pursuit is the joy of artistry.

Musician: is someone who uses art as a means to an end. They say things like "hey, it's a gig" or "I've got to sell this to make ends meet". That does not mean that it's devoid of artistry. It just means that the approach and purpose is very different.

Makes perfect sense to me. It would seem that, in these times, it would be difficult to survive on music alone. The state of music today it seems is in limbo, or in a transition. The only profit to be made is in the live performance and that isn't much once everyone else gets paid...

It kinda bums me out sometimes when i go to a cafe or a bar and see someone who has soooo much talent, playing some of the most amazing, soulful music. It seems that they have mastered thier form, thier art. Then i see kids on T.V. Who are making millions, but not writing thier songs, unable to play thier instruments... What a trip...

 

[Robert McVey]

I play music for a living. I do so in a couple different ways. I will gladly go after a gig as a player to pay the bills but I also spend 6 to 7 hours a day working on techniques that I will NEVER get to use in any band.

I pursue artistic expression because it's what I need. I've been fortunate to have a lot of experiences in my life but there is nothing else for me but artistry.

I play my own shows, of my own music, about 3 nights out of the week and most of the time it's for very few people in crappy bars, smelly jazz caves, and sweaty metal clubs... I play 1 or 2 nights a week for a band for tips or busking on the streets to make enough money to play for free the rest of the week. Just to share my art. Just to show my love for what I do.

Again, it's more than possible to do both and be both. It just helps sets up the approach for the way you make music and the joy you will be able to derive from it.

I dig your philosophy. Ultimately it is about expression and from listening to the track you posted... You are a true artist of expression...

 

[scottfernandez]

Makes perfect sense to me. It would seem that, in these times, it would be difficult to survive on music alone. The state of music today it seems is in limbo, or in a transition. The only profit to be made is in the live performance and that isn't much once everyone else gets paid...

It kinda bums me out sometimes when i go to a cafe or a bar and see someone who has soooo much talent, playing some of the most amazing, soulful music. It seems that they have mastered thier form, thier art. Then i see kids on T.V. Who are making millions, but not writing thier songs, unable to play thier instruments... What a trip...

As an artist, I could care less whether or not I play for 2 or 2000. I've been fortunate enough to get to do both and often. The more that I play, the more people come out.

The issues with most musicians is that they're not inclined to do all of the extra work that it requires to get people into the seats. People think that just because you might make tunes that people dig that people are required to come. They feel entitled and eventually become disheartened by people NOT coming.

Play often. Appreciate anyone that digs it. Simple enough


When it comes to what is popular, it's all apples and oranges. There's never a comparison from one to another. It's easier to appreciate all music than it would be to attempt to compare completely relative things in the art world.

 

[scottfernandez]

Thank you, Mr. Robert. If you want to hear some more of my work you can catch it here

www.youtube.com/shinigamikusajika

I've been doing the solo artist thing for a year and I've been making some pretty fun head way by continuing to make artistry my priority and ensuring that I am always grateful to the people who take the time to check me out... Like you